Karaoke Forums

so am i understanding correctly that the difference between home use public performance of these tracks is the venue obtaining a P.R. license?

yes, sound recordings do require perfomance rights. even having a jukebox needs PR fees paid.

from BMI & ASCAP
Aren't musicians, entertainers and DJ's responsible for obtaining permission for music they perform?

Some people mistakenly assume that musicians and entertainers must obtain licenses to perform copyrighted music or that businesses where music is performed can shift their responsibility to musicians or entertainers. The law says all who participate in, or are responsible for, performances of music are legally responsible. Since it is the business owner who obtains the ultimate benefit from the performance, it is the business owner who obtains the license. Music license fees are one of the many costs of doing business.

how about the downloads?

You've reached the extent of my knowledge. I don't know enough about music videos to answer your question. However, they do appear to be audiovisual works that would be subject to the same rules as karaoke.

and that is my question.........
karaoke downloads, SBI, Sunfly, etc.
they say i can use their tracks downloaded in shows provided the venue pays it's PRO fees.

The GEM license does not provide indemnification. But what that particular paragraph is referring to is the necessity of the KJ (or the venue, usually) obtaining the necessary licenses from ASCAP/BMI/SESAC. Public performance is one of the exclusive rights of copyright. If you buy an ordinary music CD off the shelf at Walmart, you can play that to your heart's content at home, but if you want to play it in a public venue like a club, or broadcast it over the air, or stream it over the Internet, you need an appropriate license to do that. That doesn't make the music CD you bought unlicensed. It just means that there are other permissions you need to obtain that aren't covered by the original purchase. It's the same with the GEM series.

Don Henley is represented by BMI. If he comes knockin', show him that your venue has paid its BMI fees and tell him to belly up to the bar and have another Tequila Sunrise.

18. Do I need any Performance License to put on a show?

If you are hosting a karaoke show (where other people come up and sing to your collection of karaoke tracks) and you are doing PRIVATE EVENTS (weddings, birthday parties, Church social events, corporate parties, etc.) you do not need further licenses to use Sound Choice discs. If you are hosting an event in a venue such as a restaurant or bar, the venue is supposed to have PERFORMANCE LICENSES issued from ASCAP (http://www.ascap.com ) or BMI (http://www.bmi.com ) which would cover your playing there. Again, the requirement for the performance license is on the venue, not you

Baloney again HarringtonLaw! Apparently you are not aware that the KJ is NOT responsible for venue licensing from ANY of the performing rights societies. Performing rights societies do NOT under any circumstances "license people" or groups. They license an establishment (an address).

What I really think you're talking about is that although the gem series may be licensed in the U.K., the American KJ.... in America.... still doesn't have either a synch or a lyric reprint license do they? Like you said; you buy a disc at WalMart and there needs to be a performance license in place where ever you play it publicly... You buy a karaoke track licensed in the U.K., doesn't mean is specifically licensed in the U.S. and ALL the appropriate licensing HERE needs to be paid for.

Once again, here is an example of something you want to be so, that just isn't.

My language was imprecise, but not inaccurate.

If the KJ plays material in an unlicensed venue, the KJ AND the venue can be held liable. As both ASCAP and BMI acknowledge on their websites, and as is a matter of black-letter law, everyone who participates in an infringement can be held liable for the infringement. As a matter of policy, ASCAP and BMI hold the venue accountable, but there is nothing in the law that forces this to be the case.

It is still the KJ's responsibility to verify that the venue has paid its PRO licenses, if he wants to be absolutely sure.

A-B
Airline Supplier
Airlines
Amusement Parks
Aquariums and Zoos Owned and
Operated by Non-Profit Organizations
Arenas and Stadiums
Auto Racing Tracks
Background/Foreground Music Service
Baseball - Leagues and Teams
Basketball - Leagues and Teams
Body Building Contests
Bowl Games
Bowling Centers
Boxing
Buses
C-D
Cable TV
Camps
Campgrounds
Carnivals
Cheerleading Competition
Circuses
Clogging
Colleges and Universities
Competitions/Shows
Concerts and Recitals
Conventions, Expositions, Industrial Shows,
Meeting and Trade Shows
Cruise Ships
Dance Clubs and Associations
Dance Schools - Individual and Chains
Digital Jukeboxes - Audio and Video
Direct Marketing/Distribution Companies
Dog Racing Tracks
Dog Shows and Competitions
Drag Boat Racing
Drive-in Movie Theatres - Recorded Music
E-F-G-H
Entertainment Facilities
Equestrian Events
Family Shows
Fashion Shows
Festivals
Fitness Weight Loss Centers
Football - Leagues and Teams
Football (College) Bowl Games
Funeral Establishments - Individual and
Chain
Grand Prix Auto Racing
Gymnastics Competitions
Halls of Fame, Wax Museums and Similar
Establishments
Helicopters
Hockey - Leagues and Teams
Horse and Harness Racing Tracks
Horse Competitions
Hotels and Motels

I-J-L-M
Ice Skating Rinks
Jai-Alai Frontons
Jewish Community Centers
Jukeboxes
Lacrosse - Indoor and Outdoor
Laser Shows
Local Governmental Entities
Marine Vessels with Overnight Accommodations for Passengers
Mechanical Music - Chain Stores with Audio
and Audio Visual Uses
Motels
Motion Picture Theatres - Music Supplier
Motion Picture Theatres Individual and
Chain
Motorcoaches
Motorcycle Racing/Motorcross
Multi-Media Film Program
Municipalities
Museums
Music-in-Business
Music-on-Hold - Individual and Chain
Music on Demand
Music Supplier - Radio Over Speaker
O-P-R
Orchestras
Pay Per View Programming Services -
Hotels
Polo Matches - Horse
Playgrounds (Indoor) - Individual and
Chain
Private Clubs
Professional Photographers
Professional Speakers
Race Tracks
Radio-Over-Speaker Music Supplier
Radio Stations - Local
Resorts
Restaurants, Taverns, Nightclubs and
Similar Establishments
Retail Stores - Individual and Chain
Ringtones & Ringback Tones
Rodeos
Roller Skating Rinks
Roller Games/Roller Derby
S-T
Satellite Radio
Shopping Centers and Shopping Malls
Shows/Competitions
Skateparks
Skating Competitions
Skating Rinks - Ice or Roller
Skiing Competitions
Soccer - Teams and Leagues
Speakers, Professional
Special Events
Square/Round Dancing
Stadiums and Arenas
Swimming Competitions
Symphony Orchestras
Television Chairs Audio-Visual Uses
Television Stations - Local
Tennis Competitions
Theme and Amusement Parks
Tractor Pulls
Train Cars
Training and Development Sessions,
Educational or Informational Seminars
Trucks, Vans, Trailers and Similar Vehicles

U-V-W-Y-Z
Universities and Colleges
Urban Transportation
Video Services
Volleyball - Indoor and Outdoor
Web Sites
Wind Ensembles
Wrestling
YMCA/YMHA/YWHA/YWCA
YoYo Competitions
Zoos and Aquariums Owned and Operated
by Non-Profit Organizations

SC's GEM series is licensed through MCPS in the UK. At the time of licensing, MCPS's licenses were worldwide. MCPS later changed its licenses to make them "worldwide except for the U.S. and Canada." But that does not change the status of material already licensed, including the GEM series. There is no need for indemnification by the KJ because the material was and is properly licensed.

It may well be that media-shifting as a matter of copyright law is fully allowable without permission, but that's not SC's call to make.

If you are playing from discs, then the display portion of the audiovisual work would fall under the first-sale doctrine (you can display the original copy you own) and the use of the trademark would be nominative fair use (you are actually playing from the manu-produced disc). But when you media-shift, you aren't displaying the original, but a copy; the first-sale doctrine ceases to apply, and your use of the trademark is no longer nominative (since you aren't playing from the manu-produced disc).

Can you point me to any legal authority applying the first-sale doctrine as it relates to trademark law in the context of a 1:1 media shift or anything analogous?

I am not an IP attorney, but I don't agree with your application of the first-sale doctrine in this context. If I remember correctly, the basis of it is that a trademark holder has a right to ensure the quality of the product and to profit from the first sale, but after the first sale the trademark holder does not have the right to control further distribution. So under the first-sale doctrine, SC can't stop me from selling my original discs, but I can't sell copies of my discs. Makes perfect sense. I'm not sure the first-sale doctrine applies to PLAYING copies of my discs while the originals are archived. No change of ownership takes place in a 1:1 media shift. Assuming arguendo it is "fair use" to transfer the data on my discs to a more convenient media, the transfer of the trademark is secondary to that transfer. The trademark is being displayed exactly as SC intended it to be, during the playback of digital audio-visual content created by SC. As you have stated before, there likely are no damages in a 1:1 shift, and I have a hard time seeing how one could convince a court of any relevant confusion or deception.

Can you point me to any legal authority applying the first-sale doctrine as it relates to trademark law in the context of a 1:1 media shift or anything analogous?

Thank you. I wish some of your most ardent cheerleaders would take note of this.

However, there have been cases that are semi-analogous. There was a case last year in the Ninth Circuit, Au-Tomotive Gold v. Volkswagen of America, don't have the cite in front of me, in which the Court denied first-sale protection to the purchaser of authentic VW logo badges who then incorporated them into other automotive-related goods.