Karaoke Forums

"...the routine display of Slep-Tone's embedded trademark during the performance of the tracks does not, without more, support a claim of trademark infringement or unfair competition under the Lanham Act."

"... it is consumer confusion about the source of a tangible good that a defendant sells in the marketplace that matters for purposes of trademark infringement. The defendants do not sell any such tangible good. According to the complaint, the defendants simply play unauthorized copies of Slep-Tone's karaoke tracks for their patrons. What pub patrons see and hear is the intangible content of the karaoke tracks. They will see Slep-Tone's trademark and trade dress and believe, rightly, that Slep-Tone is the source of that intangible content."

that does not mean what it says it means? if it does not, let us know what it does mean.
no point in going around in circles if the judges words mean something other than what they say.
we can all learn something

_________________
Paradigm Karaoke, The New Standard.......Shift Happens

too much work. I'd rather just use what I paid for. So far, PEP and Jim have been extremely helpful in my situation. Other's milage may vary. Do I agree with everything? Absolutely not, but it is their ball, and if I want to play I have to follow their rules.. So there ya have it.


Like i said in a previous post, beyond doing what i agreed to, I don't care if it's legal anymore


-James

Pardon me while I catch my breath because I've been laughing so hard at your frantic flailing about....

I have no "unhinged anger" at you... Just because you say it (over and over again ad nauseum), doesn't make it true. And now the courts agree that just because you say something is trademark infringement won't make it true either.

I'm simply watching your legal strategies topple over like a domino set....one after another while Avis tries his hardest run interference for you and protect you from all those mean old karaoke host customers that spent so much money on the label over the years.

You've been poisoning your own well for years.... that's all on you.

It's just a matter of time.

Gee thanks a bunch PEP...... 2 legal KJ's here, and all the pirates work 6 days a week many with with 2 rigs all soundchoice and youtube.
They are not great hosts either at all, but they are cheap.
Lovely........ exactly how is one to compete against that and buy your licenses???? They Can't. Exactly what are you trying to do PEP?
Wipe out SC and eventually CB forever? Wipe out all KJ's and corner the market as the only governing body and supplier of KJ services and licensing? Maybe Sony will make a deal with you as the only US streaming service? I realize that is a stretch but I really am very curious now what the endgame is..........

_________________
Purple Frog Karaoke Cuz we all feel odd and love to "croak"

they "end game" is actually very predictable:

In Harrington's perfect world, they would like to see every single KJ signing a contract and purchasing a license in order to play a sound choice track and every single venue that doesn't hire his licensees should be paying a $450 plus monthly fee for the honor of displaying their logo. In short, they would like to be the ASCAP of karaoke.

If they were truly interested in selling new music, they would have done so years ago. There is nothing preventing them from licensing music – properly – and creating CD plus G discs for the professional karaoke market. According to Harrington, their agreements with Stingray Digital prevents them from providing karaoke discs or streaming services to the general public, but it doesn't prevent them from providing to the "professional" karaoke market. (The problem of course, is their definition of "professional" is anyone who can write a check.)

If I were to venture a guess, I would think that most publishers really don't want to do business with them based on past history or, they are simply not interested in recording new music despite the years and years of empty promises and excuse after lame excuse. His current excuses now a repeated one: "we are waiting on licensing…" but don't hold your breath.

In the meantime, Harrington has a number of different contracts that you can sign (and pay for) in order to simply play that label off your laptop. And for pirates who never purchased a disc in their entire life, he has a license they can pay for as well so when it comes to him labeling someone as "pro-pirate" think carefully about who is enabling pirates – for a price.

As for the final and, it is my belief that more or more of those tracks will show up minus the logo.

But PEP will continue to prey on the uninformed because it is their only source of income and they will milk that for as long as they can.

Please stop lying about my statements.

(1) Our agreement with Stingray prohibited us from offering digital downloads of Stingray-licensed tracks for any purpose. It did not impose any restriction on the sale or licensing of discs to the general public. It also did not impose any restriction on the sale or licensing of digital downloads of tracks in which Stingray does not own the copyright.

(2) Our definition of "professional" includes (a) persons whose services meet our quality requirements and who are employed as karaoke operators in a for-pay capacity, or who have previously been so employed and are actively seeking such employment, or (b) venues that regularly provide karaoke entertainment services to patrons as part of a commercial transaction involving those patrons, e.g., as entertainment at a bar or restaurant. It does not include "anyone who can write a check," and we have repeatedly turned down licensing applications from persons who do not meet our definition above.

Nice to know Jim that you do have some standards, other than a warm body and enough money to pay what you demand.

Now you're just being obtuse. It's obvious that there cannot be any restriction for music in which stingray does not own the copyright. That being said, you are still prohibited from providing streaming services for any of the back catalog – so that is not a lie. And I don't believe that your company is going to get near any endeavor that requires you to press a disk. If you somehow felt that that would have been profitable, you would have worked to re-license the most popular tracks that are not manufactured by other companies.

However, I would imagine that your company's failure to produce any new product for almost 6 years makes it a fairly logical conclusion that your company will never produce new product despite your old and empty promises.

And I doubt that since your "asset switcheroo" (the reason for which is yet another lie – even if by omission) Stingray Digital won't give you the time of day in regard to any of the back catalog – for any purpose whatsoever. I believe your current excuse that you are "waiting on licensing" is also another lie.
Which all sounds very pretty on the surface, however the phrase "actively seeking such employment" simply opens the barn doors for anyone that ever wanted to be a KJ – and in reality means nothing – absolutely nothing. I don't believe that you care because if a person's willing to send you money on a monthly basis, you'll be happy to come up with a reason to label them as "professional."

In the meantime, I believe there are still KJ's out there who have paid you in advance for an audit for which you have never completed. Sure, you have given them the label of "provisional certification," and I believe you made a recent announcement that you are shutting down the certification process entirely. So tell me, are you simply going to call these people "certified?" Do you have any intention of ever performing the audit for which you have already been paid? Are you going to refund their money and tell them they're out of luck?

You can accuse me of lying all you want, but you certainly can never accuse me of taking someone's money for a promised service and giving them absolutely nothing in return.

Were you lying when you said you were "getting the band back together" and held out your tin cup and accepted money in advance, only to retract your statement and claimed that it was to "test the market interest?" (it's very easy to relabel a spectacular failure as "a test" and then have to issue refunds)

Were you lying when you said that you increased the prices of your licensing in order to "maximize revenue from licensing" because you realized you were "leaving significant money on the table" or when you said that you "increased pricing to be fair to KJ's at the risk of losing licensing revenue?" You can't have it both ways.

And you call me the liar?

I accuse you of lying because the statements you posted are objectively false.

You accuse me of lying because you disagree with what I say, based on your own opinions.

If you can't understand the difference, there really isn't anything left to discuss.

That is a good one a lawyer accusing someone of taking liberties with the truth!

I dunno if gong after the venues is a great idea... just like any business, some are better off then others.

I've dealt with a lot of bars that had shoe-string budgets. Some of them last, others don't. There are tons of factors why bars don't make it, even in the best of situations.

Around here, the bars talk to each other. I can't tell you how many times I've seen 3-4 bar owners hanging out together, yapping it up. If one has a problem, they tell the others, and the rest try to avoid it if its possible. Bad groups, dead beats, cons going around, cops making raids, etc.

So PEP will sue one of a group of bars, and the rest might look for alternate entertainment that will cause less friction for them, it's not like karaoke is the only thing out there vying for patrons attention.

There are at least 60 bars in the greater Seattle area that have nothing worry about based upon what I know about the folks in the PEP directory and the shows they run.

Instead of sitting back preaching gloom and doom and practically hoping for the demise of the industry, one could, for a relatively small investment, protect not just yourself and your venue, but also add some herd immunity to karaoke overall.

Oops....did I just think outside of the box?

_________________
-Chris

Nope. You're simply wanting everyone else to sign the same contracts you have and climb into pep's box... where it's easier to "control you."

No Thanks.

I smell poop again.....

I can use SC material. You cannot. You desperately want people to believe you have a choice in the matter, when in fact you do not.

So.....Who is being controlled?

But to respond directly to your out of the blue response (I didn't think you cared about what I had to say.....remember?), I don't want anyone to sign anything. I want people to not make stupid choices like you have freely admitted to doing.

_________________
-Chris

No, I accuse you of lying because you tell lies. You know, the same "objectively false" crap you accuse me of... Like when you announced that you'd produce new music, collected money on this false promise and then claimed it was only to "test the market." That's a lie, not a test but I wouldn't expect you to be able to discern the difference.

So I'll point it out to you again:

So which one was the lie?

Well....you did lie about the watermarking thing. Just saying.

_________________
-Chris

Check your upper lip....
You've had your head up Harrington's rear end so much, there has to be some residue.
Learn to wipe better.

Newsflash: I can use "sc material" whenever and wherever I ef'ing want and even your buddies at pep-tone can't stop me if they wanted to. But if you think that is somehow not true, then please explain to all your loyal fans how they can stop me...

You are. Check your contracts with them.

Of course you do and like your buddy Harrington, you are the one now telling lies.... because in order for anyone to follow your "out of the box thinking" requires that they sign a contract somewhere. But keep on lying... I'm sure someone, somewhere will believe you.

Oh....the wit. It's a lot less funny when you have to explain it. Ask any comedian.



control - the power to influence or direct people's behavior or the course of events

You pulled SC out of fear of being sued. Seems to me that Kurt's thumbprint is practically a tattoo on your forehead at this point.



I feel comfortable saying that you have likely signed a few contracts in your time and been subject to "control" yourself. In fact, you are a number of years older than me and reason would suggest you have signed more contracts than me and are thus under the control of far more people for far more activities than me. But I don't hold it against you. Just pointing it out.

The difference for our example is that you cannot use SC material without some serious repercussions. While contrary to your claims, I can say "PEP Sucks" any time I like (see....I just did). Of course most people know I don't actually feel that way, but you seem to believe that some words on a piece of paper preclude me from even thinking it, much less typing it up on a forum, be it how I really feel or not. Now that I have, what will you adopt as your next modus operandi in attacking me? (note - I plan on remaining consistent with poop, yeti's and calling out your lies).

Again.....I know it pains you to see me doing what you no longer can, and I should add, with superior efficiency, and I suspect much higher margins. But there is no reason to dislike me so for that. I would be happy to share with you how one can optimize their multi-rig oper.......oh.....wait......sorry......you can't do that any longer. My bad.




So blinded by rage that you can't see the forest for the trees. I sincerely feel sorry for you these days.

There are obvious ways that KJ's can accomplish what I suggested without signing any contract at all. Like just use the discs to run a show.

Of course you will also suggest that no contract is needed to pull the discs, shove them in your garage, and lose your investment. But that is just one of the stupid things you have chosen to do that I would like to see other people avoid.

btw...... Don't think people didn't notice how you completely ignored and even snipped out the watermarking comment. Have I mentioned I work with the digital forensics team at Microsoft in my new role? More to come.......

Finally........stop caring Chip. You said you don't, but you keep responding. So you are either lying about caring, or you simply can't control yourself. Perhaps you should discuss a contract with the mirror?

Off to speak to two more venues. One of which found me through the PEP web site.......

_________________
-Chris

I knew it would be far too complex for you to understand without explanation but everyone else got it.
All deflection. I asked you to tell me how they can stop me and you simply barfed up drivel. How do you know I'm not using it now that both districts 7 and 9 have declared their lawsuits are not infringement?

And to think you spent so much money on contracts out of fear of being sued for trademark infringement for your precious "covenant not to sue" ..... when the courts have determined that it hasn't been infringement all along and you're still locked into (and controlled by) the contracts you paid to sign.... Feel snookered yet?

And now you're just guessing and making up lies to cover your own flailing about because you don't know me at all. I've never signed - and would never sign - any contract with a (former) vendor with such overreaching crap in it. I'm not that stupid.... errr, I mean; "easily fooled."

The ONLY thing all your contracts with pep does is prevent you from being sued for trademark infringement (which according to the courts, was NEVER infringement to start with) and in the meantime, they get to tell you what bitrate to use, can "inspect" your equipment, accounting books and decide if your "service" is up to their expectations whenever they want, you must report to them if your library changes by 2% and they can cancel your lease(s) if you talk bad about them...

So yeah, you are "controlled" and you have exactly nothing in exchange for this control but the stubs from the checks of yours they've cashed.
How about now? Feel stupid now? Toilet paper has more use than your precious "covenant" because at least it's softer and flushable.

I highlighted your disclaimer in the above quote in case Harrington were to miss it and want to yank a license or two... So, you can say what you want about pep... as long as you have an implied disclaimer like this right? So who is under their control? That's right, you are.

I can say "Pep sucks" and really mean it AND CAN play sc material all I want... You can't. So it's looking to me like Harrington's buttprint is all over your forehead.
Fixed that for you.

It doesn't pain me a bit because you keep repeating that I "can't" when you know full well that I choose not to. And I doubt your "efficiency" is all that hot. How many laptops of yours have been stolen so far? Two? Maybe more? I've never had a piece of equipment stolen from a venue.... but I try not to work in seedy places where that would happen anyway.
You shouldn't fee sorry for me, I'm not controlled by or locked into any expensive contracts for the Brooklyn Bridge.... I'm the one feeling sorry for you that you've been so hoodwinked and feel so embarrassed about it that you have to defend your decision just to feel better about it...
So NOW you admit that I've always been able to use the material? Took you long enough and now you're starting to "think outside of pep's box."

I haven't lost my investment at all. I still own them and I can use them - you said so yourself. I would have lost the investment if I had sold them to you at your magnanimous offer of $2 each and $10 for the new Eagles discs...

I guess I was pretty smart to hang on to them all this time... I have them and I can use them... and it looks like I can use them on a computer too... so I really haven't lost anything have I?

Oh, I'm just giddy with anticipation... said no one ever.

I really don't care, but I find it necessary to correct your lies and bull**** just like I do with your pals...

I do care about the unknowing venues that are being threatened by your buddies -- like the ones in Garland, TX because they don't know they are being trolled by predators with no decent source of income.

Gee whiz!!!! I thought it was very funny.