Karaoke Forums

We have never examined the CB tracks on anyone's hard drive during a Sound Choice audit. Until we acquired the trademark in November, we had no interest at all in what CB tracks a certification applicant might have had on their hard drive.

We have no specific information, from this board or otherwise, as to who might be running CB and who might not be.

SC Certified KJs who want to add CB certification--once we open that program--will be able to do so at a discounted rate. No one is required to become CB certified simply because they are SC certified, nor will any SC Certified KJs be "targeted" for anything.

You harping the same lie endlessly will not ever make it true.... it's the definition of insanity remember?

And since you love technicalities, "apparently" isn't very definitive... it's just speculation isn't it counselor?



My crystal ball was correct again because the real meaning of this is: pay again.

Lonman and chrisavis: Best to get ready to warm up your wallet and pay again if you want to be "completely legal" because you know, if you're not "certified" on all the trademarks then you're obviously a technical infringer and/or hiding something....


Notice how the rules periodically change?.... surprised yet?

I'll ignore your implication that I would be interested in committing fraud of this type.

I've been practicing IP law for more than 15 years. I have had many clients and prospective clients come to me, having done the same thing, particularly with regard to inventions they'd like to patent. That used to be more effective than it is now, because the patent laws have changed in a couple of important respects, but the fact remains that it doesn't really do much good.

If you want it to be as effective as possible, and to rule out fraud, you should send it "registered mail," because the USPS will use tamper-evident paper tape to seal up all of the openings of the envelope.

However, the much better approach is to show the material to a trustworthy person (from whom you might need to get a confidentiality agreement), who will countersign the document as a witness. For additional protection, have the signatures notarized. That way, you'll have someone who can testify as to what the document contained on the date it was made, as supported by notarized signatures.

Okay, I'll see your time limit and raise you again:

MY registration is now not only permanent, but is now only $30 (the same money KJ's tossed away with the Advance program and have nothing to show for it so far).

And remember, KJ's don't have to show me discs, get sued, or even take any time out of their busy days to lift a finger, get on skype, email me a songbook or anything else.

Get your "certification" today!

So, you were using your original discs until we implemented the MSP, at which point you pulled the brand because we changed the rules?



How is this a change to the rules?

CB certification is a service we will offer. No one is required to apply for CB certification--not even existing SC Certified KJs. Anyone who has 1:1 correspondence on CB can instead simply register their original CB media with us for a small fee (or, depending on the circumstances, no fee) and get, from us, a covenant not to sue and a listing in our online directory.

No one's SC certification will be affected by the decision to get CB certified, or not, or to get CB registered, or not. If they choose to get CB certified, they will get a price break.

These are your words, not mine.



What you have described above is exactly a fraud of this type. You didn't say you would have "accidently" left the envelope unsealed, or simply "forgot" to include the proof possession and was correcting an innocent oversight...

And I can't make you comprehend what I've written because somewhere in your faulty processing of the text, you interpreted and inserted the phrase; "that I would be interested" and I don't see where I've insinuated that anywhere.

Nice try....

Any KJ who chose to let their ADVANCE payment stay with us can get a full refund today if they want it.



Considering there is nothing that you own that could be used as the basis for a lawsuit, a covenant not to sue from you is genuinely worthless.

By contrast, we do own the CB trademarks. It's my belief that there are lots of people out there who would like to be able to use the content of their CB original media commercially in a different format or on different media, who recognize that they need permission to do so, who want to to know with certainty that they won't be sued, and who want to be listed on our website as having the permissions they need (so that their customers will have confidence in their services, and so that patrons will be able to locate their shows).

The fact that your "certification" is worthless doesn't mean ours is.

Childish ploy counsel... really childish.... You can't wish away what your client did as though it never happened just because it's distasteful to you.





C'mon now... be a little more honest and tell it like it is... and here, I'll fix it for you: "Anyone who has CB has no legal obligation to register their original CB media with you.

You just "want them to" send you a few more bucks while you tie them with your one-sided contract and "just want to know" if they have the product.

That's why you keep harping on "a price break"... "a small fee"... etc....

It's called PAY AGAIN.

Well, let's see...



So, yes, you did imply that I would be interested in committing this sort of fraud.

My point in the original post was to demonstrate that attacking the "poor man's copyright" is very easy--all that's required is to raise the possibility that the contents were inserted after the envelope was mailed. Certified mail is just proof of mailing an envelope. It's not proof of mailing the contents.

Since you hate me--and I use that word sparingly but advisedly in this case--it's not difficult for you to imagine that I would be interested in committing a fraud of that sort.

So Mr. Harrington,

What is the stance on legal settlements in regards to CB? are they immune to a 2nd lawsuit, or are they targets for a secondary attack?

I'm sure anyone who sued/settled after you acquired CB would like to know where they might stand.

And where is your advertising to the world at large to make it known that PEP is owner of the CB Trade Dress, and have a program to register there product to avoid a lawsuit?

I have a family of a KJ that I'm protecting because they don't know the rules, they just send you the checks.

Sez you. I've made the offer for you to purchase back all my SC material... but you've refused.... I guess that's sort of an admission what your own trademark is worth these days...


And that's all you own. And it's been sold in a digital format for years before you acquired it as "lawsuit food." So there's no frickin' way that you or your investigators can assume with ANY sort of accuracy if a KJ is using original media or not. Your precious "preponderance" is meaningless.


Your "belief" is misguided. But you'll never comprehend why that is so.


It's only worthless to you.... otherwise it has exactly the same effect and worthiness as yours except it's easier and much cheaper.

But, I'm always ready to take the high road and I'll let you apply for a certification just to demonstrate that all my customers (and prospective customers) are treated equally. Just mail me your check....

Trust me... I'm a KJ....

"What my client did" is maintain a consistent policy against the commercial use of unauthorized copies of its products from the beginning of its operations to the present day, and, starting in 2007, to offer a mechanism whereby authorization could be obtained.

The fact that you arrogated to yourself a "right" that never existed or an "authorization" that was never given does not change the facts.



This "one-sided contract"--what are the objectionable points?

People who own CB original media are not legally obligated to register their media with us. We have not claimed otherwise.

People who own CB original media and who want to use copies of those media commercially are legally obligated to get our permission to do so. We are offering that permission, on a permanent basis and along with a permanent listing in our directory, through an easy mechanism at a small fee (or, under certain circumstances, at no fee).

If you don't think our permission is needed, you're free to test that theory. Maybe it will work, and maybe it won't.

The SC trademarks and any settlement related to them are separate from the CB trademarks. Having settled with us regarding SC does not grant any sort of immunity.

HOWEVER, once registration is available, it is our intention to notify every defendant who's settled with us, along with all of our existing customer list, about the program and what will be available. Anyone who has settled with us and is in good standing will be able to participate in the CB registration program, and they will be given an ample period of time to get that accomplished.

We are evaluating the best way to advertise our ownership of the CB marks and the availability of the registration program to the world at large. We will not be bringing lawsuits against anyone until there has been a reasonable opportunity for people to learn about and apply for the program. We're also evaluating a pre-suit letter program.

I will admit that I am perplexed by your last statement. The rules are not complicated, so statements like that make me think there is something more to the story.

You are the one that not only described the fraud, but gave a pretty detailed instructional lesson on how to commit it.

"raise a possibility?" Just like your lawsuits isn't it?


And now you're just lying because you really need to stop the boldfaced, outright LYING about this. (and yes, it's a LIE.... lie, lie, lie... )
I don't "hate you" and I never have so get over it and stop repeating it.

I realize that you're still angry about having to pay a legal settlement, but really, I had nothing to with your (or your client's) actions and legal troubles.

Just mail in your certification fee whenever you like, I'll review it and let you know the status.... and I can't see why it would not be approved....

You already have my address.

Why would we buy your SC discs back?

If you don't want to own them anymore, please go ahead and sell them.



As I have said from the beginning, our approach to policing the CB trademarks will be different from the way we've policed the SC trademarks. We will take into account the media and format of the legitimate CB sales when we police those trademarks. But you underestimate us if you think we have no way, frickin' or otherwise, to get the information we need to be able to do so.



I guess we'll see.



What are you certifying?

So some more questions:

"People" in the 1st paragraph are considered "non-commercial" (Home user)?

"People" in the 2nd paragraph are considered KJs?

Yo say certification is permanent, so if a KJ buys say 20 CB CDGs or SD cards after the initial payment are forever covered to secondary market purchases in the future? Or is it limited to what you had at the time of registration? Because any FUTURE requirements to pay would be considered in my opinion 'not permanent'.

And yes, there is something MORE to the story that I'm not (nor will I say) on this public forum. Though I'm sure you can read between the lines when I say 'family'.

That it exists at all. Contracts exist only for the benefit of lawsuits.


"at a small fee".... you're still pushing on the "pay again" line aren't you?

A customer with a few 12,000 song hard drives doesn't need your permission, period. There is no legal obligation to prove to you or anyone else that the drive was purchased from TPC with or without a worthless "certification." Now, if you'd like to offer any kind of substantial evidence that Digitrax completed these sales and have the proof (like sales records) to back up your hot air, I'd be extremely interested in that.

But I'll wager you don't even have that.

Like you, I'm NOT certifying that;
(1) a KJ is a professional
(2) a KJ is skilled at producing live audio
(3) a KJ has completed any sort of special educational courses pertaining to the trade
(4) a KJ is competent with disc and/or computer systems
(5) a KJ knows the difference between a musical key and a car key
(6) a KJ is not a pirate, has not been a pirate or aided pirates

But like you, I AM certifying same thing you are:
(1) That you paid me a fee.

Any questions?


And it must be priceless because even you've been doing it for 6 years now.

Any further questions regarding Chartbuster registration, please use the PM system

This thread has out lived it's usefulness..

Just for clarification purposes:

(1) There is no legal obligation for anyone to register their CB media with us. (But see below.)

(2) If you are using copies of CB media to provide commercial services, you need our permission to do so, and you can get it through the registration program.

(3) Once you register a system and pay the fee, you can update your registration by adding or deleting materials from that system at no additional charge, in perpetuity.

(4) If you add a new system, you will need to register that system and pay the fee that's in effect at that time.