Karaoke Forums

Most shows are no longer that 4 hours so perhaps an 18 hour wait time would be sufficient.

_________________
-- Mark

I still say single PC connected to multiple monitors (which is exactly what we do now) satisfies 1:1 compliance and allows a single set of discs to be used for multiple concurrent shows.

-Chris

_________________
-Chris

But do you need separate computer receivers to view on separate monitors in a single venue?

Chances are, no.

_________________
-- Mark

Sorry Chris,
Just like you have to buy separate software for each computer you have to have different sets of karaoke tracks as well. MTU/CH/Karma all require you purchase multiple copies of hosting software for each computer as well. I understand you may not like the fact but this issue had been decided by the courts as an illegal method. Do you think Microsoft would allow me to pay to upgrade 1 operating system and use that upgrade on all 6 computers I own ?

There is a mechanism that would allow that kind of license to be issued for material that is already licensed, but we have never done one. The publishers require not a single fee for the tracks but a revenue share (I believe it's 15%), and we would also have to have a revenue share. So, if you want to something like that, you need a written license agreement with us, and you will have to turn over 40% of your gross revenue for the privilege.

Of course, it would not apply to 8125 content.

I think it is a little bold to say that that the "issue has been decided by the courts to be an illegal method". It is more accurate to say "that particular implementation has been decided by that particular court to be illegal". The method described in the case that started this thread requires karaoke tracks to be transported virtually/physically from location to location and for multiple PC's to be used to provide service. They were moving tracks between machines and/or leveraging streaming. My suggested method uses a single PC and no streaming. The only difference between what I suggest and what every computer based karaoke host is doing today is that the PC used for the show is further away than we are accustomed to. That in and of itself is not illegal.

As I noted earlier, there are no restrictions on how far away from a TV I can be when running a karaoke show. Whether the TV is 10 ft or 10 miles away really doesn't make a difference. It is still a single PC connected to multiple screens which I will again point out is exactly what every KJ that I know of has been doing for the last 25 years.

I am not running purely on speculation either. I have spoken to some IP attorneys and more than one feels that there is more than enough wiggle room to implement the solution I suggest and be able to operate within the letter of the law.

Not that I plan on implementing a solution like this, but the manufacturers need to understand that someone and really anyone could. Technology is not slowing down. It is making things simpler for the everyday person and more difficult for the lawmakers and IP rights holders.

-Chris

_________________
-Chris

well maybe SC and the other manufactures need to look into the " mechanism" Harrington just described, so that when someone tries to use that "wiggle room" the 40% of revenue can be collected and that method allowed. Seems as if using media that is purchased on a 1-1 basis is much cheaper. We pay a lot per track but nowhere near 40 % of our revue.

Chris, I know we also disagree on this point, but to me it is not a question of whether something is "legal" or "illegal" from the court's perspective. The question is, in order to accomplish what you are doing technologically, does it require you to do something that requires the manufacturer's permission?

We think it does, and when it does, and the result is that operators can buy less product and get the same use, we view that as pretty problematic.

I understand that and I know what I suggest is a loophole. But it is a valid loophole and it adheres to the current letter of the law. I am not sure what permission would be required because there is no difference in what I propose and what KJ's have been allowed to do for 25 years *except* for distance. If you think SC takes a lot of heat now, wait till you try to tell us that we are only allowed to be a maximum of XX feet away from a TV.

I am simply playing devil's advocate here and keeping you and Sound Choice apprised of the technological challenges that you must recognize and adapt to.



Does this apply only to content that is still being produced? What about OOP content? We can't buy what isn't being sold. If it isn't being sold, then SC is not losing any revenue. At that point, as long as we adhere to applicable law, what recourse does SC actually have?

-Chris

_________________
-Chris

Chris, you still do not use a separate computer/receiver for individual monitors in a single venue. You daisy-chain them to the one computer running your KJ program.

You would need a separate computer/receiver to access your server to project to different venue monitors so why not just use a cloned HD of your media-shifted original discs for the multi-rigs?

Back to square one me thinks.

_________________
-- Mark

But those (let's say) 10 separate rooms within 1 building are the equivalent of being 10 separate locations (because there are different crowds in each room, singing different songs at the same moment in time). Wouldn't it be about the same thing as having 10 different shows going on at the same time (regardless of whether it's all contained in 1 building or 10 separate buildings)?


And how much different would it be to have that fail-safe set up into the OS (Operating System), where the same song could not be played at the same time at multiple (separate building) locations?

And, how does one know whether or not the single location building for Private Karaoke Rooms has that same fail-safe set up? Who's to say that you and I go to the same establishment on the same night with our own separate group of people, and rent out separate private rooms? What if I am in Room number 1 and you are in Room number 7 on that same evening, and at 9:21 PM you and I both decide to sing "Summer Nights" with one of our friends, and the song comes up immediately for both of our private rooms.

Cueball,

I guess I would have to refer to Harrington's quote "The question is, in order to accomplish what you are doing technologically, does it require you to do something that requires the manufacturer's permission?

I guess we should ask some of the Asian style karaoke rooms directly. The only one I have ever been to many years ago used CDG jukebox style machines located in each room so they were disc based. If they wish to media shift I would expect they would have to receive permission.

Exactly. Though how I connect to a TV/Display at a venue can vary based on the types of connections available, I am essentially displaying one feed to a KJ monitor and another feed (which is usually replicated) to the singer display and other TV's around the venues.

My proposed solution does the exact same thing - a central karaoke computer with as many video out connections as are necessary to support the number of venues. On-site hardware can manage replication if needed.

Again...the only difference is distance.



No other on-site PC is absolutely required though having one would make things much more convenient. Simply plug in a compatible IPTV Device and configure it properly and you have a new display end-point for the central karaoke computer.

-Chris

_________________
-Chris

That SC title might be out of print, but that doesn't mean you can make additional copies of it just because you can't get more of them. I don't think the recourse differs much.

It all revolves around copies......if one can avoid making unauthorized copies then they are in the clear.

-Chris

_________________
-Chris

Easy way to settle this...... Mr Harrington would SC allow media shifting of files to be used from a remote location ? Since this has been brought up maybe clarification should be placed in the covenant not to sue.

So then, what you are saying is that in the separate venues, the different singers will have to be singing the same song simultaneously? Or, the KJ is in a central location cuing up the singers songs for the separate venues?

Is there a program that will play different songs at the same time from one computer?

I'm confused! !

_________________
-- Mark

You can connect remotely to the central karaoke computer via a SmartPhone, Tablet, or the most convenient way, via a terminal session from a PC. But this PC does nothing more than provide an interface to the central karaoke computer. It does not process audio or video. Just displays the necessary KJ info for running the show.

Either custom software can be used that manages multiple venues -or- existing software can be used as long as it is licensed properly. (I have done some basic testing with Karma and it works just fine. No reason to think that CompuHost or Hoster wouldn't work just as well.) This allows for a KJ to be at each respective venue controlling the operations of the central karaoke computer.

-Chris

_________________
-Chris

@LON.....

Wasn't TOQER (Robert Cortese) developing something like this a couple years back?

I remember a thread about someone running multiple shows from a server and got the OK from a manufacturer. Was it toqer?

I do not remember if it was a central server where multiple venues tap in or if it was just a server/jukebox type system for the venue itself.

However there is a server/cloud type system available now that is supposedly fully legal.
http://www.touchtunes.com/experiences/karaoke/

_________________
LIKE Lonman on Facebook - Lonman Productions Karaoke & my main site via my profile!