Karaoke Forums

You know what? I have to say something here. Throughout my long and successful business life I have had endeavors inmany different areas- Provisions brokerage, Surplus sales, Electronic design, Electronic distributorship, Bar ownership, Personal Security, Jewelry, and others.

I have sold every business that I have owned at a nice profit, because each was successful.

In that time I have never seen a single company OF ANY SORT come up with more screwed up schemes and mismanaged ideas by themselves as SC. Whether it be Media-Cloq, third party download sites ( a true pirate treasure trove), production of music before ( and/ or never) obtaining permission to do so, the the current Defecate- On-My-Own-Label "settlement" bit, and now discussing producing new music ONLY for the ( by ratio to active Karaoke Hosts) miniscule Gem owner market.

Forget my anti-methodology stance, but simply as a businessman: Who comes up with this stuff???

Ethical feelings aside, this is a company that is badly in need of a professional business manager.

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"No Contests, No Divas, Just A Good Time!"

" Disc based and loving it..."

Usually Joe when a company is trying anything and everything it indicates that they are in a panic mode. SC has been in this mode since they started this legal process of theirs. They didn't want to get their hands dirty so they hired APS to clean out the stable for them. Trouble is APS not only cleaned the stable but took the horses for good measure. If production is resumed it is already plain it is going to be on a reduced scale, just for a select few. This might make some hosts feel special, but still the same number of hosts is going to be needed, if the economy improves even more will be needed. That would mean these non-select hosts will be using some product, maybe not SC but something. Some of the venues are going to get tired of SC trying to hold them up, and just hire the hosts that have no SC. The resumption of production is only to quite people like me and you who question SC's viability as a major karaoke producer of music product. They have decided themselves not to be major, but rather minor by selling only to a select few. If the new product is coming in Mp3 format that means it is compressed music and will not have the fuller music effect of a CDG right? I still personally have my doubts as to there being a long term situation where SC is a maker of product again, then of course we will have to wait an see what the quality of the new product is, right? Have a blessed day.

i do have a question about it, since there are only about 400 certified and gem owners, and if 750 pressings of the last disc was not enough to recoup the investment, how will SC do anything but lose money selling to max 400 hosts only?

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Paradigm Karaoke, The New Standard.......Shift Happens

These days, on demand runs of discs in smaller quantities are much less expensive than they were even 5 years ago. I imagine that taking advance orders then doing a production run to fill would be pretty cost effective.

-Chris

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-Chris

That's part of it. Licensing is also less expensive than it used to be. The publishers used to demand per-song minimums, and they have largely dropped that requirement in favor of advances against royalties per repertoire.

The availability of additional material will also hopefully drive sales of the entire series, or at least induce KJs to become certified in order to have access to it.

i thought licensing was getting more expensive....

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Paradigm Karaoke, The New Standard.......Shift Happens

So, if I read this correctly, SC is hoping that KJs will spend thousands on a library of GEM discs filled with music that they already have in order to buy a few new SC tracks- assuming these are ever produced?

Not sure that depending on an unintelligent ( I would use another word, but don't want to be harsh) customer base is the key to successful sales, but good luck with that.....It does seem to fit with other schemes that SC has come up with.....

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"No Contests, No Divas, Just A Good Time!"

" Disc based and loving it..."

!!! SERIOUSLY, LMFAO!!!! You better go back to free certifications, then. NOBODY is going to get certified to buy your little bits of new material!! I really wish I could find those REALLY good drugs that Kurt is taking!! The man is delusional, and has become a TERRIBLE businessman. Whoever is counselling him needs to be fired!!

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I am the ONLY SANE 1 HERE

I will buy their tracks provided the quality is consistent with what they have produced in the past. So they have at least one customer and I imagine a lot more.

-Chris

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-Chris

Personally, I don't need to have access to the entire series. What I am lacking (in my library) of SC material, I have more than made up for in other Manufacturers content. If anything, AND ESPECIALLY since I am an ODB KJ, I own all of my discs with no stipulations attached which dictate what I must do in order to use them, and I wish to continue doing so with any/all of my future purchases.


That's easy for you to say. You ARE already a GEM Series licensee, and as such, already a Certified KJ by SC. I am NOT a Certified KJ by SC, and I don't foresee it happening now.


Based on that alone, now it won't matter to me whether I get SC to list me as a Certified KJ or not. Assuming that individual discs will be made available, I have no intentions of paying money to purchase a new disc from SC, and have to pay some sort of licensing fee to continue using it at my show/s (the few that I might host). I am an ODB KJ, and if I am going to pay for a disc, I am only going to pay for it one time, and not have an additional price tag attached to it so that I can continue using it years later.

Way to go SC (in trying to keep your old customers).

Yeah I can see all the KJ's lining up or falling all over themselves to become certified and place their business under your scrutiny, just for the privilege of having access to your new product. I think SC and Kurt have taken a page out of Prof. Harold Hill's book, "The Music Man". They play on a concern of legal hosts pirates, create an sense of emergency with their legal process. Recruit certified hosts their version of the "Boy's Band", and of course are going to sell their boy's band the equivalent of the uniforms, instruments and sheet music. I hope everyone sees this for what it really is. The legal process is just to generate fear, in order for SC to sell it's product. Whether there is new production makes little difference to me, since I refuse to join the boy's band. Currently SC is the only manu pursuing this legal option, PR is still out there but I see no one around here getting busted for SC much less CB or should I say DTE. By your own admission James SC has decided to be a specialty label and will no longer mass produce product for distribution. Therefore they are no longer a major player but a high price select product sold to a select group. It will be up to the individual business owner aka the KJ host to decide whether to use or continue to use your product. Maybe it won't be up to the host, if the venue he works for decides he can no longer use your product, since you have made your label toxic by your legal process. Have a blessed day.

What I am lacking in not driving a Mercedes is made up for by driving a Hyundai. I respect it is a personal choice but there is a indisputable difference in quality.



To be clear - I was certified BEFORE I was a GEM licensee. The purchase of a GEM does not make you SC certified. Audit still required for the rest of the SC library if you run it from a PC.

It was also hinted to on these very forums more than 6 months ago that new production from SC may only be available to certified hosts or GEM licensees. So this should not be a surprise to anyone.



There is no "and". You license the music then you are done. At least that is the case thus far with the GEM series. We can debate all day long about the ongoing costs of licensing but when you consider how many discs have to be replaced by ODB hosts over the years due to loss or damage vs those who run from PC and never have to replace such discs, then it is quite possible that you are paying more than a PC based host and that you ARE buying music again that you already owned so you can continue to use it years later.

However, if I remember correctly, you (cueball) don't do weekly shows. So you probably replace fewer discs than ODB hosts that run weekly shows.

When all of that is summed up, I don't understand why people can't set aside their disdain for SC, be a bit more pragmatic, look at the numbers, and envision the bigger picture.

Not to mention that SC is the ONLY manufacturer actively trying to combat piracy at the point of distribution. The GEM series has thus far not shown up online whereas EVERYTHING ever distributed on disc by ANYONE to date is online with new disc based content showing up within 24 hours of release.

In fact, the manufacturers that insist on distributing only on disc are simply perpetuating the problem of piracy. They know it can be ripped and uploaded with trivial ease, yet they continue to distribute that way anyway. I have yet to find any Karaoke-Version tracks in significant quantity anywhere. Also haven't seen any Digitrax content online. Not saying it isn't there, but it isn't easily found if it is.

Digital distribution, digital watermarking, and licensing (vs ownership) will continue to grow over time whether anyone likes it or not.

-Chris


-Chris

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-Chris

As will I.

I don't think he is delusional at all. Think about it. Would you rather sell your product at a profit only to certified people? Or sell to the masses where it will instantly be stolen and given away to millions? What they potentially lose in sales will be offset by the elimination of piracy...much like the GEM series which after almost three years is still not "in the wild" as a pirated product.

The pirates already have every song that is on the Gem Series. They will figure out how to get the new songs when there are some songs that they don't already have.

Well, you would know.

But when it happens, the party responsible will pay dearly.

The All Powerful OZ has spoken. Be afwaid. Be berry berry afwaid.

Are you accusing me of something Jim without ever seeing me? I make my own karaoke tracks to sing when I go to karaoke venues. I am not a karaoke host yet you insinuate that I'm a pirate because I'm not a RAT who turns in karaoke hosts to you? Nice!

Would that be considered slander or libel, Jim?

I stand corrected regarding when you were certified and apologize for that mistake. Regardless of that fact, the main fact is, you ARE a certified KJ by SC. I AM NOT, and HAVE NOT been offered that opportunity because I was never 1:1... just 1:none.


This is true... And, if you go back about 1 page within this topic thread, you will see a rather lengthy set of quotes that I posted, along with the dates they were made (dated about 9-10 months ago). And I commented then as well as now regarding how nothing was set in place for a person in my situation. I also commented then about how making new SC releases available ONLY to GEM licensees and Certified KJs was unfair to people like me (a minority) who are ODB KJs.



Shoot! I haven't done a show in almost 9 months now, but I'm still hopeful to find an occasional gig to host. My full-time job schedule just makes it extremely difficult (but that's a whole different story).

As for the situation regarding a need to replace discs due to damage, well, I don't need to worry about that anymore. With the exception of about 6 discs in my entire library that I can't make a back-up copy of (CDVs or VCDs), I finished burning a copy of each of my discs (about 1 year ago) to have for just that sort of thing. And, with any new discs or downloads which I purchase, I immediately make a back-up copy of it (to keep in storage with my other back-up copies). If my original becomes damaged to the point of being unplayable, I will just make another copy from my good back-up copy, and use one of those copies I burned in its place. I would then keep the original and the new back-up copy in storage with my other back-up copies.



I do not believe that mine is an issue of disdain. I NEVER said that I would never purchase from SC ever again. I would gladly PURCHASE (not to be interchanged with License) new music from SC if/when they start producing again. I just feel that if SC is going to make a new disc available, I should be given the opportunity to purchase/own it as versus pay for a leased license use of the tracks on that disc. And what is the bigger picture you refer to? I am curious as to what numbers you are asking me to look at? Is this about my lack of wanting to embrace today's technology? Is this about the numbers of ODB KJs vs PC KJs?


The GEM series has not shown up pirated because nobody needs to make copies of it to pirate. They (the Pirates and fully loaded HD Sellers) already have the entire SC library out there, so there's no need to make up another set of the same songs by the same Manufacturer.

Chris, don't you already use GEM discs? Then it's no big deal for you.

The point is, they are seriously hoping that non-users will invest thousands in a GEM set of songs they probably already have ( maybe even on SC CD+Gs) just to be able to get whatever new music SC might produce in the future. In other words, invest thousands, then sit and wait patiently in hopes of an actual quantity of new production in the future. I can't imagine a sillier way to run a business, and I don't think I will be in the minority. Not a great sales plan.

On the other hand, assuming that the majority of GEM users have them due to "settlements" ( and I do assume that), I guess they have to try something.....

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"No Contests, No Divas, Just A Good Time!"

" Disc based and loving it..."

1) Correct. Pocket Songs makes better Broadway and show tunes, CB's country is consistantly better, and Zoom, Priddis, and several others have matched or bettered their pop. Even Party Tyme /SyberSound- a department store brand- is making high quality product that is, in many cases, a match for SC.

Not only that, but all the other brands relinquish the rights of ownership of their discs to the buyer. SC retains the rights of ownership for the GEMS, despite the high financial outlay of the user.

I too respect your right to choose, but it's SC's marketing and suggestible KJs that have made said KJs dependent, not their quality- though it is, in general, good.

I still get a twist in my gut when I hear a KJ state that they are library / (ANY) brand dependent.

It's kind of like a clothing salesperson saying that they are only good at sales if they sell a specific brand. My assumption is that they never learned the skills required to be a salesperson..


2) Putting the full catalogue/library of manufacturer's quality tracks on download sites that are easily hacked is THE number one treasure trove for pirates. SC did it through third party sites, and others have done so directly.

SC is only protecting the GEMS, whose tracks were included on their regular CD+Gs- which, as they claim, have already been pirated in digital form and are everywhere. Therefore, so is the GEM content. They are only trying to protect the new logo/trademark, not the content-and new software can delete that.

Luddite that I am, even I know that pirates aren't sitting around ripping discs anymore. It's not the discs, it's the downloads- and it was the MP3 downloads that caused the HUGE explosion of piracy- WAY more than disc burners ever accomplished.

MP3s could be stolen for FREE. A disc burner still had to take the time to copy, buy blank discs, labels, even ink, and the burner had to charge more for the time to burn the copies, and the SOURCE was not open to EVERYONE. MP3's can be stolen by anyone with a PC at home.

Go get 'em, digital? Um, nope. Just going digital isn't the answer either.

The only thing that I've heard of (years ago), was a memory card that would self-erase if a copy was attempted, and someone has probably already gotten around that too....

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"No Contests, No Divas, Just A Good Time!"

" Disc based and loving it..."

1) I dunno- I kind of expected better than that from you, Jim.

2) Once again, per yours and SC's statements, it HAS happened, and some time ago. You stated that SC's tracks- then on CD+G as well as other sources later on- has been pirated. Current GEM's content is made up of that previously pirated product.

"When it happens"?

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"No Contests, No Divas, Just A Good Time!"

" Disc based and loving it..."