Karaoke Forums

just to understand it clearly.....
if i rip to a hard drive without paying SC first, i am a pirate and can not use any manus material on hard drive because it is an illegal copy.

if i pay SC first, then they will look the other way and "forget" about the other manus material.

asking a payment to look the other way on illegal activities has a word for it.

The offense of blackmail is created by 18 U.S.C. § 873 which provides:
"Whoever, under a threat of informing, or as a consideration for not informing, against any violation of any law of the United States, demands or receives any money or other valuable thing, shall be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than one year, or both."

unless it is not actually an illegal activity, then what are we even having this conversation about?.

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Paradigm Karaoke, The New Standard.......Shift Happens

I'll repeat the salient word which is the most important part of this and that word is PERMISSION, PERMISSION, PERMISSION. PERMISSION is not looking the other way.

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You can be strange but not a stranger

SC can give me permission to rip DK, Monster Hits, Priddis, Music Maestro, Top Tunes, Panorama, and all these other companies they will willingly "look the other way" over if i pay them?

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Paradigm Karaoke, The New Standard.......Shift Happens

theWraith,
to answer your question no we did not purchase the Gem series. We own 3 complete systems of music and purchasing the Gem series for any of them would leave us with WAY to many duplicate's.(we have been in business for over 18 years now) However if/when we put 4th and 5th systems into operation we will purchase a Gem series and likely a CB 12000 as well. If you ask anyone who went to the meeting in Charlotte NC they will tell you my husband is a major disc collector (he was nick-named the disc whore master).We even own 4 sets of pioneer LD's that I have converted.

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"Integrity is choosing your thoughts, words and actions based on your principles and values rather than for your personal gain."
Unknown
"if a man has integrity, nothing else matters, If a man has no integrity, nothing else matters."
Lee McGuffey

No Sound Choice only gives permission/looks the other way if you have 1:1 ratio of SC products only.

It's only after you've been sued and either settled or ordered to pay damages that the others come into play.

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The Line Array Experiment is over. Nothing to see here. Move along.

TheWraith,

I never said that everyone against SC were pirates and to be honest I get a bit tired of people stated that I did.

sorry a bit of a correction here, if you do not get permission AND are taken to court by SC they will ask the court to enjoin you from using other manufacturers products digitally without written permission in advance. It is up to the court to grant this request.

Your statement that those that were not 1:1 (suckers you called them...pirates I call them) have to buy a GEM series and so forth offends me....Why wouldn't a thief have to pay for the crime they committed ?

If anyone wants the benefits of media-shifting please explain to me why you feel that they should not have to pay for the privilege. Given that audits are the only way to separate the 1 legal host from the 19 larcenists, Why do you expect the manufacturers to bear the entire cost of the process?

I personally would LIKE to think that most people are honest and do the right thing, but reality has proven otherwise many times more than I can count. The sense of entitlement that I see on a daily basis distresses me. The piracy issue almost takes a back seat to the entitlement issues that are repeatedly expressed.

_________________
"Integrity is choosing your thoughts, words and actions based on your principles and values rather than for your personal gain."
Unknown
"if a man has integrity, nothing else matters, If a man has no integrity, nothing else matters."
Lee McGuffey

Paragigm,
Just one question for you Why do you feel it is SC's responsibly to police the entire industry ? they are free to pay to file against anyone they choose that are not following the written policy AND ask the court to enforce any legal remedy available to them. I am a bit surprised that you are expressing such outrage at them as you were one of the few that did take advantage of the free audits in NC.

_________________
"Integrity is choosing your thoughts, words and actions based on your principles and values rather than for your personal gain."
Unknown
"if a man has integrity, nothing else matters, If a man has no integrity, nothing else matters."
Lee McGuffey

Trying to do this on a Kyros while out of town. Please bear with any typos...

First, like it or not, a dfault judgement can't set precedent because the premise has never been tried- period. Sorry. SC would hope that it would to bolster it's defence in it's current declaratory suit, but it does'nt work that way. Nice attempt though.

Second, what SC is is trying for is a large piece of a digital karaoke MONOPOLY, rather than any anti-piracy attempt.
C'mon folks, think!




Second, what SC is trying for is a large piece of a digital karaoke. Onop

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"No Contests, No Divas, Just A Good Time!"

" Disc based and loving it..."

JoeC
COME ON you stop and think for a minute , this is not a monopoly attempt and you know it. This IS a big blow against pirates and IS making a HUGE difference in my little part of the world. Anything a judge decides does make a difference.
With all due respect take time to breathe and think this out

_________________
"Integrity is choosing your thoughts, words and actions based on your principles and values rather than for your personal gain."
Unknown
"if a man has integrity, nothing else matters, If a man has no integrity, nothing else matters."
Lee McGuffey

i don't feel they should be policing the industry. i don't feel it is the place of any company to police an industry, i feel it should be policed by.....police.
i did not go to NC (would have been cool, but $$$) i got my audit before that, actually only 2 people in the country got theirs before me. i am not against them filing against pirates, but i do not like the way they are going.
here is an example.....
i ripped my discs and stored them in cases at home to stop them from degrading any further. would seem a good thing to SC, protect the good name by preserving the product and only presenting clean, un-blotched graphics before the pinholes began to show up.
apparently i was wrong.
the preferred display in the eyes of SC is to let the pinholes from the low quality discs corrupt the graphics and show that to the public. unless i get an audit for the honor of preserving their good name. doing this audit would get me help from SC in growing my business and stamping out pirates in the area, bringing higher pay. piracy has not dropped off in AZ at all, and pay has not budged either.
apparently i mis-understood who the help and higher pay was for.
as cases went to court, they got thrown out for improper filing methods. judges in several areas have thrown them out so no matter what legal council says, the courts say it was done improperly. not that preserving the quality of the original tracks harms SC in the least.
enter pay for audit. now that you must PAY to get permission, not asking now harms SC's income and therefore they can now actually have a shot at getting somewhere. (or so it appears to me)
now with this latest one, they have apparently shown that ripping without permission beforehand is trademark infringement, a crime.
but i want to ask you this.......
you and i both have tracks from defunct companies that can not give permission, therefore you and i both are committing a crime
if we know of someone infringing on trademarks like this and do nothing, we are in the wrong and part of the piracy problem in many eyes.
if SC knows about it, and does nothing, they are noble for looking the other way in the eyes of the same people.
why the two standards? will you remove tracks from all of the lables that you do not have permission from? why is it ok to infringe and make illegal copies of material from some people and not others?

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Paradigm Karaoke, The New Standard.......Shift Happens

So what other item can you buy that lasts forever? Not too many, if any. Products wear out, or die, or whatever. Then what happens? You buy a replacement. Like I have said ad nauseum, how many manufacturers would let you make a copy of their product for next to nothing?

I guess Disney, MGM, Sony, Microsoft, Louis Vitton, etc are wasting money on legal departments whose sole existence is to go after those who illegally copy their product or Trademark.

Do you realize how many more Law Enforcement Officers would have to be hired to go after everybody? This is why these corporations have legal department to protect their interests.

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You can be strange but not a stranger

Paradigm,
I feel for your frustration in the lack of speed in eliminating piracy in AZ. Here in Florida we are seeing a different outcome. I do not know why this is the case. Pirates are being eliminated and pay is slowly going up. Unfortunately the courts are not enforcing the media-shifting rules (on orphan manus) until someone is taken to court by a manufacturer. Those that have been enjoined are those that have admitted guilt by defaulting ( or in writing possibly) and the court has penalized them with the order.

I do not feel I am guilty of a crime. A person found guilty of drunk driving may not drive a car however, since I have never driven drunk I am allowed the privilege IF I pay for my licence and insurance.

We can show each and every original disc for each of our systems and at anytime we are able to return to using discs if we were informed that we needed to do so. Would I pull orphan labels that I paid for before returning to disc use ? most likely not.

I hope I have answered all your questions if not I will try and answer the rest tomorrow as it is late and I am over tired.

_________________
"Integrity is choosing your thoughts, words and actions based on your principles and values rather than for your personal gain."
Unknown
"if a man has integrity, nothing else matters, If a man has no integrity, nothing else matters."
Lee McGuffey

It seems strange to me that SC has not addressed the Software Programmers who sell "Commercially" to KJs.
(Commercial <------proper use of the word)

Seems to me that, if it were illegal to rip to a HD, then why wouldn't the SOURCE of the ability to "RUN A SHOW" be targeted?

Just ripping a Track to a HD with programs like MP3+Gtoolz or Tricerasofts CDGRipper or Audiograbber, etc. doesn't allow a KJ to RUN A SHOW.

You need more sophisticated software to DISPLAY the GRAPHICS and CATALOG SONGS.

So, does SC lack the manhood to tackle the S O U R C E?

I sure hope the 3 aforementioned Default defendants are not having any rage issues, as I've seen some in this forum expressing...and rightfully so.

Bottom line is Sound choice still charges for audits to permission they are not even allowed to give, They just will look the other way. Oh at a cost 120 us dollars. Not sure if they will ever make it anually but I got a feeling it will. A dog tastes blood it wants it again.




With everything said on Every thread.... What has Sound Choice done to Stop Future Piracy?

I know exactly the opposite of Chartbuster. They Hopped on the technology wagon and drove that thing home. For future drive sellers if one was to get a drive I would bet My left one they can be tracked right down to the original purchaser.
Soundchoice approach, Throw tones of people legit or not into a courtroom. I suggest they Hire PI's to investigate and get professional Footage and proof of pirates. Not Hungry Kj's out of work getting 70.00 bucks to visit Karaoke shows and say Yeah I saw a computer he must be Scamming.

Keep in Mind I am still disk based( Not for long unless it is illeagal) But I have been using Serato, Virtual DJ and pc dj for years,

Oh Athena its Nothing personal to you. Just frustrated at the Whole cost( Audit fees not anti piracy checks), Verses No due process going on here in good ole USA. Spent 8 years service to the country, Not for rights to be crushed without cause. My only real (@$%&#!) in the first place.

I will relax now. I am so eagar to be digital and now Not sure if I want to go to court legal or not, prior permission or not.

Did you get permission to media shift those trademarked Pioneer products for commercial use?

Pioneer is not an "orphaned label" and they are still in business. So is JVC and DKKaraoke.

Interesting double-standard here.

Because I'm fairly certain that many of those were dropped by the plaintiff. If a KJ spends the money and retains an attorney, it's for a reason. I'm sure it's easier to slink away from those willing to challenge them and move on to more profitable pigeons. Don't kid yourself into thinking it hasn't happened. The plaintiff doesn't want a court battle - they want settlement money -- period.

But the word "oops" comes to mind as well.

Besides, since these suits were started going on year #3, even the ones challenging with NO attorney have not quite reached a trial date have they? Ask yourself why not.

ChipS
Actually I have an email somewhere from someone at pioneer saying "we don't care as long as you have originals,we are not in the karaoke business anymore" (paraphrased).That is about 5 1/2 years old....so you are correct they still are in business just not the karaoke business. I should try and track down DK (and JVC if they are still in the karaoke business)however and get in writing their policies on media-shifting).

_________________
"Integrity is choosing your thoughts, words and actions based on your principles and values rather than for your personal gain."
Unknown
"if a man has integrity, nothing else matters, If a man has no integrity, nothing else matters."
Lee McGuffey

TheWraith

Thank you for your service to our country

_________________
"Integrity is choosing your thoughts, words and actions based on your principles and values rather than for your personal gain."
Unknown
"if a man has integrity, nothing else matters, If a man has no integrity, nothing else matters."
Lee McGuffey

good call Athena
Ditto Wraith, and everyone else who served.

thank you for doing what you do so i can do what i do.

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Paradigm Karaoke, The New Standard.......Shift Happens