Karaoke Forums

I have always preffered high quality tracks, if available, and still think sc tracks are among the highest quality. I buy other tracks if that's all that's available. I guess I don't see 1.3 cents a song enough of an inconvenience to run my sc library on PC. Most of the people around here with the 190000 song library don't own their homes, cars etc. and I do so I'll try to follow the rules and if I incur some extra costs I'll deal with it. I will add I have a lot more respect the people who would pull a manufacturers library because they disagree with the policy as opposed to those who try to circumvent it by cutting etc.

I don't have any where near 190,000 songs. Since I rarely play more than 60 in a evening the rest of the music just sits there. A huge investment that remains waiting to be played. Sometimes a few singers just have a handful of songs, if I know them personally, I refrain from singing the songs in question. The whole trick is having the 60 or so songs requested, and the ability to play whatever discs singers bring in. There are two reasons I have pulled SC product. First is disagree with the methods they have employed in trying to resolve this problem of piracy. Second it is a prudent business decision to drop their product, in this manner I both protect my business and the venues who hire me. I would use this as a sales pitch, if I went door to door looking for work, thankfully that has not been necessary for many years. Like I have stated many times each host must find his own way in this business, and have the freedom to improvise when needed. Karaoke to me is not only a business, but an art form. I tend to lean on the artistic side rather than the monetary. Since I put the emphasis on the former, the other has never been a problem.

Perhaps I missed it, but I didn't quite understand the 1.3 cents a song unless you are factoring in the costs of audits, etc...

I appreciate you recognizing those that drop the product because of the invasive policy of the vendor. However there are other reasons as well that KJ's might not want to purchase the Gem series as you have as well and that is outlined in the agreement you signed when you leased them. You've (inadvertently I'm sure) made SC a partner in your business who can;

(1) Pull their product from you if they feel the "quality of your service" doesn't somehow measure up to whatever standards they decide to set.

(2) You've also agreed to hand over your private accounting records to them at any time they request them.

(3) You agreed to indemnify them (three times) for any transgressions or omissions in any aspect of their licensing of these songs with regard to the original copyright owners.

For some of us, that is unacceptable no matter the price.

Yes the whole process is just way too intrusive for what they want to let you use!

My shows are "on the books" so if they really want to see them I don't care, my accountant will make the arrangement. I've signed similar licensing agreements with microsoft, novell and others in relation to my computer business and the leases on our lasers and other items in our veterniary practice. There is nothing in the covenent that isn't s.o.p. in many licenses/leases. The next time you lease or purchase a car on credit, or buy a house, read the whole contract and you'll realize what rights you are conceeding to the lender or leasor. Our business credit lines can technically be pulled on 60 to 90 day notice if the lender loses faith in us or our business. I guess it's because I'm older and been involved in running businesses for 33 years that I don't see the SC agreement as a deal breaker. Remember, I bought the GEM and am getting certified to expand my business. I have had bar owners and managers find me at my regular shows and book the second rig for their location. I have never felt right that the second system while similar in song selection didn't offer the same same quality. (It was originally intended for private parties only, not weekly repeat shows)

Really?
(1) Does your leaseholder on your laser equipment have the right to pull the equipment if you don't use it the way they would prefer you to?
(2) Does your leaseholder on your laser equipment have access to your accounting and customer records?
(3) Does your leaseholder on your laser equipment have you indemnify them if the their laser equipment infringes on someone else's intellectual property rights?
(4) Does your leaseholder on your laser equipment have the right to pull this equipment if they don't happen to believe your service measures up to whatever they want?
(5) Does your leaseholder on your laser equipment have the right to pull this equipment if they "lose faith" in your business?
The answer to all of these is "no."
Any purchase that is financed is limited to certain rights of the lessor in order to protect their financial interests in their loan to you. And that's where it ends.

The bank that mortgages your house doesn't have a clause that they can take back your house if you don't mow the lawn to their specifications, or want a list of every person entering the property (that could possibly damage it), or require that you cook fish outside to avoid smelling up their financed interest in the property. The bank will want your accounting records only to ascertain that you are financially able to repay the loan - that's it - that's all they can do. Remember that there are lender liability laws that will protect the consumer and that will limit their use of information.

The leasing company that leases you a car doesn't require that you only drive (wearing gloves) on a list of their "approved roadways" to protect their interest either.

Neither of these lenders will force you to indemnify them in the event they have violated/infringed on the rights of others. Your gem agreement does... three times. And it has nothing to do with "on the books" or "off the books" either, that has to do with information that is none of their business. (Ask them for proof of licensing on the songs they issue and see how far that gets you.)



You "leased" the gem series, you "bought" nothing. No one is saying that the gem series should be a deal-breaker for you or anyone else. However, for some it most certainly is. Especially when past customers have revealed that the song selection (lots of oldies) have actually been used very little in the year or so that they've leased it.

Your mileage may vary.

For me to maintain credit lines my banks requires full access to my books on 7 days notice. Most equipment leases have clauses that allow the leasor to terminate for almost any reason they see fit and we can't sue them if their equipment injures someone. So I guess the general answer to yor statement is yes.

Which means nothing from a KJ business standpoint. In fact the licensee has use of the songs for just a long as the "owner", but for a much lower price. But hey. If someone want to pay double in order to feel good, go for it. I wouldn't.



A GEM license is only a deal breaker for those with a grudge against SC or the inability to see that (when you boil it down), the end result is the same. 6000 songs for you to use, for as long as you like, for half the price of "ownership". Again, this is not real estate that you will someday sell for a profit or hand down to your kids.



The multiple GEM series owners I know would disagree with this unsubstantiated claim. The vast majority of the songs I use in a given night are from the GEM series, without a doubt. And they sound awesome.


GEM series #1, one year and counting. No audits, no calls, no bank record requests, no fees, nothing. Nada. Zip. Just 6000 of the best base songs in the business. Then again, I haven't broken the terms by pirating the music either.

I would disagree that the older songs don't get used. Depends on the market/club/audience. I don't have the GEM but have seen the list & many of those songs are still used pretty regular - not nightly, but wouldn't want that either.

_________________
LIKE Lonman on Facebook - Lonman Productions Karaoke & my main site via my profile!

In my main system my sound choice still gets about 70% of a nights play, monthlies about 20% and misc disks the other 10% so the GEM was great for me. My two main shows have the 21 to 70 mixed crowd. The kids tend to sing as many "oldies" as the over 35 crowd, but they do go for more of the monthlies for current.

See the trouble with to take sound choice out of my sytem to is because even when I have many songs not sound choice when I had shows most was sung is sound choice but to stop being suited I must I thank my new friend to explain how to do this but need help on how to reform c drive

I'm having a hard time understanding your post but you had claimed in another thread, which has now been deleted, that you were named in a SC lawsuit, correct?

I remember your posts as stating so. For anyone advising you on removing SC content after the fact, could put you in jeopardy of destroying evidence.

So you are asking the forum to help you destroy evidence?

_________________
"Just Say NO, To Justin Bieber & His Beatle Haircut"

No I only try to do as lonewolf say to take sound choice away this to stop the suited for slep

Mileage definately varied for me, since I got the series, I have yet to see a night that 99.9% is from the GEM series. Aside from maybe five songs that I have actually sung off of the other brands I have, All the songs at my bar gig that I have been at for five weeks have been GEM series songs. That may change once I add KJ Media Pro to my system.
In all actuality, no one has asked for the latest top 40 hit to sing so even though I will have access to the newer stuff with the Media Pro.

_________________
The Line Array Experiment is over. Nothing to see here. Move along.

Sounds to me like someone who was duped into purchasing something they thought was legal... and now simply wants to correct the error and cease infringing on SC's trademark they didn't know was occuring... but you want to continue to make it sound sinister, criminal and underhanded. How understanding of you!

No one can make any mistakes - or even correct them - while Sheriff Wall is on the case?

Wouldn't it be better to focus on the HARD DRIVE SELLER that created this mess? .... They are the ones that are continually duping people like this into being sued.... (or is it simply more profitable to squeeze the pidgeons?)

Nice spin, but invalid.


Right, "almost any reason" is not "any reason whatsoever" but it sounds close... Your leasing company can't pull their equipment if they don't think your overall veterinary service is up to whatever they feel is acceptable (and undisclosed.)

And you can't sue them if "their equipment" injures someone - even if you are negligent in its operation. Because you are the one operating it, not them.

But this is different, and a closer analogy would be: "If we get sued by the patent holder for using a stolen patent, not only can we not sue them, we've indemnified them three times if it turns out they "stole the patent" (read as: "unlicensed underlying musical work") for the machine they lease to me."

Actually I suggested to CrazyEd on the thread that was deleted, that he should contact SC immediately to resolve the issue.

Will SC drop the suit if he deletes everything in SC's presence, not before, & ceases doing shows with said drive after giving SC the information on who he bought it from?

Maybe CrazyEd should contact an attorney.

_________________
"Just Say NO, To Justin Bieber & His Beatle Haircut"

Why should they? There's NO money in doing that and it would be a missed opportunity to turn this person into a "customer.".... This is "asset recovery" and "recouping losses" remember? Not a charity for the unknowing.

They won't touch the HD seller because there is no money in that either.... they are creating the potential customer base. They are the money machine driving the legal machine...

So why isn't any of these people being sued turn around and name the software companies as a third-party defendant? CompuHost and plenty of others don't primarily sell their products to home users, they purposely direct the marketing for KJ'S TO USE.... in a "commercial business." They are designed for commercial use, beta tested by commercial users and sold for use in commercial establishments. It's not like a VCR that is sold to home users for time-shifting, these products are sold specifically for commercial use and marketed to "avoid carrying hundreds of pounds of valuable discs to private parties as well as bars and clubs."

I would certainly do that if I was sued and let them bear some of the brunt as well because it looks like their product is designed, tested, marketed and it encourages, enables and facilitates the users to commit trademark infringement.

Right just tell that nice police officer that just arrested you that you bought that stolen car from e-bay and thought it was legit and see where that gets you. That is why "Possession of Stolen Property" or an equivalent offence is on the books in the vast majority, if not all jurisdictions in North America. Now if you're lucky, they might believe you and might drop the charges but I wouldn't bet the farm on in. Remember, ignorance of the law is no excuse.

_________________
You can be strange but not a stranger

That's a little overboard.
In the majority of cases, if they can find the seller, and they know that the buyer was duped, they will not press charges or will drop them if they are pressed.
The world isn't all black and white, timberlea. There happens to be many gray ares and even many shades of gray.