Karaoke Forums

I met one of the Carolina Starz" KJ's "Eric" last night he does have an awesome collection of music. You are right though he was not using a server download system he had everything on a 1TB hard drive. He claimed he has over 100,000 karaoke songs and twice that in DJ music.

But I can say it wasn't much of a karaoke show, one karaoke song and then DJed dance music (that nobody was dancing to) for 30 minutes then two karaoke songs and then DJed for another half an hour then one more karaoke song and then again with the DJ music. by the time I left he must have had 50 request slips in for karaoke and was still DJing to an empty dance floor.

What I don't understand is why someone who owns that much karaoke and DJ music is working for someone else, it just doesn't make a lot of sense to me! I have a fraction of what he has and I went into business and am doing OK at it. There is no way I would go and setup a show play for 4 or 5 hours for a $50 cut of the take, when I was having to purchase my own music and gear. It just doesn't make any sense to me from a business prespective!

That dude must be really rich to invest perhaps $75,000 (just a rough guess on the low side) in karoake tracks and work for $50 a nite. Yea I am believin' that one.

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No venue to big or too small. From your den to the local club or event, we have the music most requested. Great sounding system!

I don't think you actually get what is really happining with regards to karaoke tracks. It is not the fact that the artist are or are not getting paid. It is that fact that there are multiable copies of licensed karaoke swipes being reproduced digitally after the fact once out of the hands of the original manus (ie. Sound Choice and Chartbuster for example). The manus are allowed in their agreement with the publishers to produce x number of copies to be sold for retail or kj market and that is all but when the copies are produced illegally after the fact and are sold and reproduced 1000s of times more that what was allowed between the publisher and the karaoke manu, there lies the problem. The manu is left with stock on the shelf that they have paid to produce and cannot recoup their cost due to poor sales since some jackwad makes digital copies (with no cost involved and not approved by the publishers) and passes it around on the internet for free or for a nominal cost therefore cutting out the manu all together. Now, I know some will say that they only wanted the disc for the one special song and the rest was zip, that still doesnt justify going out on the internet and buying the one song that the internet seller was never authorized to sell it in the first place. I know my explanation is long winded but, should be pretty clear.

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No venue to big or too small. From your den to the local club or event, we have the music most requested. Great sounding system!

Non Competetion agreement????
Yeah right !!!

He is dreaming. My God where do ppl get these ideas?

Virginia is a "right to work" state.

The ONLY way an employer can enforce a non compete in Va. is to have proprietary ( secret or exclusive) products or information ( security related, like defense contractors).

TOTAL BULL!!

I signed one before I knew any better, and the DJ company ( if you can call them that) had NO CASE When I left to work for a real Company.

PPl will still have you sign them THINKING they can hold it over your head. They are WRONG!!!

Your state may vary.

What you've described is a classic pirate KJ. Next time ask these two questions:

1) How much does a collection like that cost? (bet he sez he paid $400 for the drive)

2) Does he have the original disks for all that music? (IF he's willing to answer at all, bet the answer is either no, or some bafflegab about licensing that's totally erroneous but sounds good. MOST likely is that he'll turn extremely hostile and refuse to answer.)

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Dave's not here.

Genius may have its limitations, but stupidity is not thus handicapped.

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Dave's not here.

Come on now Moonrider, dont you know the going rate for a totally loaded upto date HD is now only $200. Somebody wanting 4 bills is ripping you off. The new pirates are now undercutting the old pirates.

Mojo

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"It looks just like a Telefunken U47 !"

This is a very good example of either a true pirate or a woefully uninformed KJ....downloading on the fly or any other way is not legal....download sites are required to post "not for professional use" on the site I however have found some do hide it in such a way that it is almost impossible to find and will try to use "public performance" allowed as a work around.

If you ask an Attny (or research) for the Legal Definitions of 1. professional use 2. private use and 3.public performance this issue becomes very clear.

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"Integrity is choosing your thoughts, words and actions based on your principles and values rather than for your personal gain."
Unknown
"if a man has integrity, nothing else matters, If a man has no integrity, nothing else matters."
Lee McGuffey

Obviously paying to belong to some private pirate club doesn't make the files you get from there any less stolen.

But someone please show me where it is written that the files direct from Sunfly and Zoom on Karaoke.cc and the files from Tricerasoft are not legal to be used in shows.


From the Karaoke.cc website:

Is your service legal?

Yes, absolutely. Every mp3+g track that is sold has a royalty paid to the Mechanical Copyright Protection Society. This is then distributed to the record companies, artists and songwriters who own the rights to the songs. A royalty is also paid to the manufacturer of the karaoke backing track. We never sell tracks without the full endorsement of the track manufacturer.

Now granted this speaks of European licencing, but Sunfly & Zoom discs are licensed the SAME WAY. Am I missing something here, or are not the downloads from karaoke.cc just as legal to play at a US Show as a Zoom or Sunfly disc? And since the GEM series is licensed in GB, the downloads from karaoke.cc are on about the same footing as the GEM series, are they not?


I'm not as sure about the files from Tricerasoft, as I can't find info one way or the other on their site, but they have been selling them for YEARS.

Just found this on the Karaoke.cc site:

About Us
Find out more about us...

Karaoke.cc is owned and operated by Zoom Entertainments Limited – one of the world’s premier producers of karaoke software.

Our service is licensed by MCPS (Mechanical Copyright And Protection Society) and a royalty is paid to them each time a karaoke track is sold via this website. MCPS distributes royalties to the relevant publishers, record companies and songwriters.

The purpose of Karaoke.cc is to supply digital karaoke tracks on an instant download basis. We recognise that many people use computer-based karaoke systems for both home and professional use and purchasing tracks in this way has a wide range of benefits:

We distribute for these manufacturers - we pay them large commissions/royalties per song and we pay an additional download license (for Karaoke which includes lyrics and backtrack) for "Permanent KARAOKE Downloads" to each copyright agency in the territory. We pay SOCAN (North America), MCPS/PRS (Europe), and APRA/AMCOS (Australasia). HFA has recently opened it's doors to international companies, eventhough we already cover the USA, we are working with them to see what they can offer - we talked to them before many years back BEFORE they allowed international companies and settled with our current agencies which have covered us for years. Either way you are covered with us for your tracks (regarding to holding a copy of a song and the permission to use it) and we are currently the ONLY distributor of MP3+G® which holds active accounts with more than one major copyright agency covering 3 quarters of the world.

If you use our tracks in a commercial setting ("replay"), the venue owner (bar, restaurant, club) pays a karaoke "COVER LICENSE" - USA: ASCAP or BMI, Canada: SOCAN, UK: PRS, Australia: AMCOS, etc. YES, ALL of these agencies cover Karaoke, DJ's, and even Video - make SURE the owner pays his royalties and supports the music and karaoke industry! The onus works two ways, if you work in a venue that does not pay then you have to cover it, if you don't have legal karaoke and the owner is paying they can be charged or lose their license. Always KEEP your receipts.

It is your responsibility to confirm the source of your karaoke - NO, a hard-drive from Craig's list is not legal so right away you know those songs are a no-go. Each manufacturer charges us near a $1 per song and min. royalty of 10% gross for the copyright agency and this is JUST to cover the customer to be legal - consider this when you purchase a song. Karaoke Discs are easy, those are already licensed for use and most manufacturers will allow you to convert them one-to-one - if a company makes it a precedence not to allow it, those are obviously not for you as a digital KJ therefore Don't Buy Them! And to confirm your digital download source, call (or email) the agencies they "claim" to be part of and simply ask. Don't get caught with your pants down.

Holy COW! Stop the presses!

Thanks Tricerasoft1.

Finally, someone from a download site makes a statement that directly relates to professional KJ's.

The receipts are digital. They aren't going anywhere.

Now that you've spoken up, prepare yourself for the onslaught of rhetoric and rancor.

There are a select few professional KJ's out there who have complied with the manufacturer's 1:1 concept and have been audited/certified by manufacturers and have agreements in place to forestall legal action for the media shifting of CD+G's as well as license agreements in place for MP3+G's.

This topic is of paramount importance to computer based KJ's who strive to maintain lawful and legitimate business practices.

Notwithstanding personal opinion, and cutting to the legality and intent of those who are willing to purchase a karaoke track from a retail web-front (who is not a mfr, but claims to have permission to sell tracks from the mfr), I believe you are stating that if a professional KJ's purchases a licensed track from a web-front that has legitimate licensing in place, you are reasonably secure as long as you maintain the receipt for the purchase and don't duplicate the file.

You have to be aware that this is a matter of some controversy. The owner's & management of 3 US based karaoke companies have told me in direct conversation that download sites including yours are not legitimate sources of karaoke tracks for commercial use.

What exactly is your basis for refuting that claim? After all, isn't it the publishers who grant the license (for a fee) and determine what use would be deemed appropriate? If so, do you have evidence that would demonstrate that use of downloaded tracks for commercial purposes is foreseen and acceptable to the publishers?

Fellow KJ's in regards to Tricerasoft1 post... note a couple of points please

"Either way you are covered with us for your tracks (regarding to holding a copy of a song and the permission to use it) and we are currently the ONLY distributor of MP3+G® which holds active accounts with more than one major copyright agency covering 3 quarters of the world.

Covered with them.....not the manus
3/4th of the word........not this remaining 1/4

I am also interested in thee answers to the questions asked by MtnKaraoke

"What exactly is your basis for refuting that claim? After all, isn't it the publishers who grant the license (for a fee) and determine what use would be deemed appropriate? If so, do you have evidence that would demonstrate that use of downloaded tracks for commercial purposes is foreseen and acceptable to the publishers?"

I ask you each to question if you wish to accept the legal exposure for using downloaded tracks that each of the "Big Three" have advised are not legal in the U.S ?

Personally not worth it to ME

_________________
"Integrity is choosing your thoughts, words and actions based on your principles and values rather than for your personal gain."
Unknown
"if a man has integrity, nothing else matters, If a man has no integrity, nothing else matters."
Lee McGuffey

Correct, we only distribute manufacturers who give us permission - call them if you are not sure and they will confirm that you are covered under our sale to you (YES, ofcourse you covered by them). We've asked other manufacturers nicely to distribute their content but they prefer selling on their own - NO, we would not sell their content without their permission. NO, we are NOT covering Africa or China, so yes 3/4 of the world is more than sufficient (if you have a problem with that then you can pay for Africa)! We don't have customers there! But you are welcome to keep purchasing from those that only have MCPS (UK) coverage. Copyright agencies "REPRESENT" the publishers and give licenses on their behalf and collect royalties - that is their purpose. And those USA based manufacturers you are referring to (or should I say "competitors") are all distributing in digital format (starting 2010) but ONLY for USA from the USA (if they even have the license for the USA, but that's your onus to find out not ours - we do not distribute for them) - so as for legal the only ones you should be questioning is them. And as a bonus, we are distributors and we don't have to pay the additional license, it is supposed to only be paid by the manufacturer, but we DO ANYWAYS to protect both you and us (correct, the agencies and publishers get a double-dip from us). And YES the manufacturers we sell for also pay their sync. license and are provided logs to track your purchase so they would not go after you (these also get submitted to the copyright agencies). And please stop guessing about how licensing agreements are processed outside of the USA, we've done over 8 years of research on this and we are covered and fully cover our customers - infact we are over covered. The final summary - Buy your songs from a legit source, DON'T purchase from manufacturers who intend to bite you, and tell your venue owner to pay their ASCAP. Take this for whatever it's worth but I'm not volunteering any more info because I was simply getting fed up of people not reading what it says on our forum and making wild accusations without doing the proper research. All these forum entries do is give the competitors fun wording to play around with and "to be" competitors knowledge to open their own service (not interested). Sorry, I am not volunteering as your devils advocate or anymore information. I told you what it is, how it works, where we stand, and that we carry licensing. Want to check, call the manufacturers and agencies (our manufacturers we distribute and agencies we belong to, NOT the competitors!).

I ask you each to question if you wish to accept the legal exposure for using downloaded tracks that each of the "Big Three" have advised are not legal in the U.S ?



I'm lost here. Tricerasoft doesn't sell tracks from the "big 3." Chartbuster sells their own downloads and have said they are fine for commercial use. So if CB downloads are legal, how are authorized downloads from other manus on Tricerasoft not? Just because CB/SC/PHM say so?

I don't see downloads there, you can get custom sd cards full of MP3+G but the downloads have gone away because they found another way to distribute the mp3+g files.

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The Line Array Experiment is over. Nothing to see here. Move along.

http://www.chartbusterkaraoke.com/great ... vol-1.html


see the column "digital download"?


not all songs are available, but they do offer downloads for $1.99 each.




Chartbuster Acceptable Use Policy

The following constitutes acceptable use for Chartbuster Karaoke intellectual property. It covers the use of any of our manufactured discs, and authorized downloads which are currently exclusively available through ChartbusterKaraoke.com. Individuals and business enterprises that follow this policy may do so without the threat of litigation from Chartbuster Karaoke.

• You may not shift the content of the original media to any non-original medium, unless you are in compliance with our media-shifting policy.
• Provided that such media-shifting is otherwise in compliance with the laws of the United States or Canada (as applicable), you may shift the content stored on each of the original media to ONE non-original medium of your choice.
• You must maintain possession of the original media whose content you have shifted during the entire time the content is stored on the non-original medium.
• While the content has been shifted, you may not use the original media for any purpose, commercial or otherwise.
• If you desire to shift the content of any of the original media to more than one non-original medium, you must acquire one or more additional original media, so that you maintain a 1-to-1 relationship between original media and the non-original media.
• We do not indemnify you against any action or claim by any third party.

Singyoassoff...thank you for asking for clarification. It has to do with the licensing requirements...here in the U.S we do not have "blanket licensing" and the royalties are calculated and paid diffrently. I am sure someone from the "Big 3" will stop by and explain it much better than I can shortly.

_________________
"Integrity is choosing your thoughts, words and actions based on your principles and values rather than for your personal gain."
Unknown
"if a man has integrity, nothing else matters, If a man has no integrity, nothing else matters."
Lee McGuffey

Quoted directly from public area of Tricerasoft's support forum:

TriceraSoft songs are licensed for "use", which means you have legal right to hold and play a copy of the song provided in digital format (not related to commercial use, keep reading) - your receipts are proof of legal purchase. We are proud of supplying legal content in downloadable format. But when it comes to playing them commercially, it is the VENUE that must have the correct license, what is generally called a "Cover" or "Blanket" license (similar licenses as when you have a live entertainer, play a movie, play recorded music, play radio, etc) - this has nothing to do with you. What is important is that in the USA, agencies such as ASCAP and BMI, that take care of blanket licenses are putting the onus on venue owners and managers to ensure they hire entertainers with legally obtained content, if you have content from us the receipts are your legal proof of "use" (the legal right to hold a copy of and play the songs you purchased). *REMEMBER* the Venue is the one that covers the replay of the song or "performance" - this is why you find that there are always two agencies that deal with creating/selling of content licenses and the ones that take care of playback or "performance". But it also works two ways, you should also confirm that the venue you work in is legal and paying their license or the VENUE is NOT allowed to play music (you can get in trouble supporting such a venue).

AND:

All of the MP3+G tracks supplied by TriceraSoft are fully-endorsed by each of the respective Manufacturers and are sold with their permission. A royalty is paid to the Mechanical Copyright Protection Society (MCPS), SOCAN, or APRA for every track sold. A commission is also paid directly to each Manufacturer to ensure the ongoing effort of quality released and maintain upcoming product. TriceraSoft is proud to distribute for these manufacturers who are providing distribution of their content in digital MP3+G format and TriceraSoft continues to serve the karaoke community with our best efforts.

TriceraSoft is licensed and permitted to provide downloadable karaoke content, but this bares no relation to rules, laws and regulations of particular regions or countries. The Manufacturer licenses the content for performance (which is included as part of the Master Rights), the license paid to the appropriate agency covers performance in digital format, however your region or country must allow digital representation of the format and you must contact your local agency to ensure it is permitted.

AND...

Content is provided in digital hard-drive format only. TriceraSoft license permits use in digital format ONLY. If you burn these to disc or convert them, they are not covered under our license. Do so at your own risk and discretion.

SO...

This leads one to believe that U.S. based KJ's are obligated to operate under conditions that TriceraSoft "bears no relation to".

I commend you for obtaining the correct licensing and permissions to distribute MP3+G karaoke. I would feel reasonably secure in purchasing and using the products that you distribute.

If a venue owner in the USA gives you the lame excuse that "there is no cover license for karaoke", you visit one of these links for them, print out the form with "Karaoke" under Audio and "Video Karaoke" under Audio Visual Uses checked, fill in the "D.J. and Karaoke" witht he times you worked for this owner, slap it on their desk, and tell them to go pay their licensing or you will report them! Or don't work for them because you will get in trouble and they will be fined. You can ofcourse show your receipts, so you will be alright and you are not involved - you are investing to be licensed and they can't even bother to cover their own venue (that's sick!).

http://www.ascap.com/licensing/pdfs/hotelreport.pdf

http://www.ascap.com/licensing/pdfs/privateclub.pdf

https://ascap.com/licensing/termsdefined.html

Only venues who do not pay their licensing get in trouble, read here:

http://www.ascap.com/press/2005/infring ... 12405.html