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And you are not reading what I have answered. NO law or organization has granted me permission. The rights holders have advised my wife in writing that as long as the pro fees are paid by the venues and we OWN the tracks on original manufactures disc we have the right to display the lyrics.....the worst case scenario would be that we had to return to playing from disc. If you wish to receive the same information in writing from the rights holders I would suggest you spend the time and energy cultivating a relationship with the publishers as Athena did.

And I'm granted the same rights for downloads that were licensed that I have receipts for, there is no difference in delivery methods.

Now you've gone and done it. Frank is going to go nuts on you!!! You are contradicting what his contacts have told him.

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I am the ONLY SANE 1 HERE

If you bother to check you will find you are very wrong on your opinion. The publishers intentionally do not convey the same rights on downloads that are offered on disc... for example per the TOS on every download the rights for use reside ONLY with the original purchaser... they can not be sold or transferred in any fashion. A simple check with the rights holders will clarify your confusion. The delivery method makes all the difference in this case.

Also if the publishers decide to really push I will be able to play my original manufactures disc in players and still operate when all of the downloader will be out of business.... you can't play a download without a computer.

The rights reside with the ORIGINAL purchaser. That only means we can't sell them to someone else. That doesn't mean we can't use them ourselves. We just can't sell them to someone else.

You know what Frank, if this all goes as bad as you are trying to make it seem like it will, YOU may find you have been told a bunch of BULL, and YOU may be out of business, too, since all the discs say "not for public performance". You may find that the publishers decide to either END karaoke, or make ALL current karaoke music unusable.

We may all have to start from scratch, buying publisher made tracks, OR we may have to pay the publishers a fee to run a karaoke show, to make up for what the manufactures screwed them all out of.

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I am the ONLY SANE 1 HERE

Sorry, but Frank is right, and I have been saying so since way before he or Athena ever brought it up.

No downloads have ever had licensing for use as a basis in a karaoke show, and no such blanket license has EVER existed. Not only that, but download users will have a tough time proving that their downloads are legit- ESPECIALLY DT downloaders. DT, knowing what they were getting into, - in my opinion-has refused to supply track specific receipts in order to make it hard to prove that any particular track was purchased from them. As previously posted, DK tracks have only been authorized in pressed disc form, yet are sold as downloads from DT. I believe they will run into the same difficulties as may Tricera in the near future....

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"No Contests, No Divas, Just A Good Time!"

" Disc based and loving it..."

A little self education goes a long was Smoothedge69. Understanding basic law principles help too. Discs convey a set of down line rights that the publishers were careful to not include with the tracks that they licensed for download. Since the majority of tracks were not licensed for download use here in the USA the publishers hold all the cards.(there are some exceptions such as ASK and some of the DT tracks) The laws of the USA as they stand allow for me to use them as designed for public performance in any venue that pays the pro fees. I am not worried. I sill still be able to run my shows even if I do have to return to hauling players and discs. I did it before and I can do it again. Someday the laws may change ...someday downloads may come with the same rights that discs do.... if and when that occurs my opinion may change. I personally don't even have a problem with the idea of a yearly licensing fee paid to rights holders by KJ/DJ's every year to be allowed to run shows... just another cost of doing business. I pay my taxes and buy my insurance every year too.

I'm not going to lose any sleep over this whole thing. I will let you people do the worrying for me. I pay for all my music, whether it be on disc or on download, and my conscience is clear. If someone wants to tell me that I can't use my downloads anymore, I will figure it out from there. I have discs and I have a player. I will get by, UNLESS they turn around and say we can no longer do karaoke. Then I will be just a DJ service. I will survive no matter what.

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I am the ONLY SANE 1 HERE

I don't understand the purpose behind the fear mongering over using downloads in a karaoke show.
Public performance licensing does not differentiate between downloads and CDs. A little self education would help one to understand that.
It also does not differentiate between five piece cover bands and solo acts. Understanding basic law principles would help one to understand the simple logic behind that too.

Public performance licensing allows for the public performance of an artist's creation by someone who is not the copyright owner. The licensing is statutory and available to anyone who pays the fees under the laws of the USA as they stand.

But still, we should all be afraid of the boogey man and respect the superiority of those who shun downloads for the advanced technology of compact discs if for no other reason, because they are the only ones who pay taxes and buy insurance.

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KNOW THYSELF

Well that isn't true, there are many players on the market today (even those that were sold through SC direct) that will play mp3g via a flash drive without the need of a computer.

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That is a statement made and they don't say 'not for public performance' they state 'not for unauthorized public performance' - PRO fees paid by the club is supposed to take care of the 'unauthorized' part making them ok to play in public.

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LIKE Lonman on Facebook - Lonman Productions Karaoke & my main site via my profile!

Acording to my emails with Universal Music Group (the worlds largest) this is not true. they told me that KV and TS are both paying appropriate lcensing and my downloads from them are legit (i did not ask about any other sites at the time).

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Paradigm Karaoke, The New Standard.......Shift Happens

You didn't clearly write this until just now.

I have no intention of building a "relationship" with the rights holders. In my opinion, the little flies (KJ's) buzzing around the sleeping bear (rights holders), have helped wake it up. Now it's angry and looking for something to attack.

There is no reason for KJ's to EVER have to ask questions of the rights holders and when we do, the rights holders start scratching their heads and wonder why. THEN they figure out how they can make some money which screws us in the end.

Thanks!

btw.....you just confirmed for me that no matter what the source of the karaoke music, even if downloaded, so long as the PRO fees are paid, we are golden. If a rights holder wanted to make an example of someone, they would have to verify the authenticity of the source of the music. In my case, since I purchased music PRIOR to enforcement of the No Fly list, that music is fine. Just as legal to use as discs.

I am sticking with downloads.

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-Chris

But you can. CAVS players as well as a other disc players, have USB ports. In fact, CAVS players have ethernet ports. Download directly to the player.

And technically.....you disc player *IS* a computer.

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-Chris

Back to this point. Zoom says they are fine with people buying discs and shifting them. This is straight off the comments on the Zoom Announcement per Facebook:

Zoom Karaoke A Produb licence doesn't cover our content, but we don't mind you buying our discs and then ripping them. Songs already downloaded have been licensed, so no issues there

That is Zoom's stand. Your manu milage may vary but my guess is SC is the only one that cares.

There will always be polarizing people and there will always be people that sit at the far end of the spectrum. We have/had our share of both on these forums.

All of this is a moot point until the publishers start coming after individual KJ's.

What sucks more than anything about all of this is not the debate between CD's and Downloads, but the shrinking number of sources from which we can obtain music.

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-Chris

Chris, you are so right. You people that think that you're doing something good buy calling up and bothering the publishers have now provoked them to take a look at what's going on. Something that wouldn't even be an issue if it wasn't for some people steering the fire.

Bottom line is this:

If you want to live your life in fear, go right ahead. But as long as you're doing everything right:

Legally purchasing your music (disc or download)
Working for an establishment that pays their ASCAP and BMI fees

You have nothing to worry about. Just keep your mouth shut and do your job. Do the right thing and you'll be fine.

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Electro-Voice Evolve 50... Taking Sound To The Next Level.

Something got Universal's attention. I tend to think it was DTE more than anything. Didn't SC have something going with them at this time (I truly can not remember). But I do agree that the bees can't be helping any at all.

The lack of places to buy new music is a sad situation for all who are honest KJ's. Very shortly it will become VERY evident that there is. HUGE difference in the mind of the rights holders between discs and downloads. So call my warning fear mongering.... don't pay attention.... do things as you choose, it is your business after all and you pay for your choices. The last laugh will be mine.

And for the record I have no issue personally with tracks purchase before they were added to the no fly list being used. KJ's just need to read and understand the TOS they are agreeing to when they purchase downloads. I don't think many even read them and they differ quite a bit and change often. Some even state you can be informed to discontinue use at anytime. EVEN IF you paid for the tracks, and because you agreed to the TOS you are bound by that contact and gave up the rights... and for what ? instant availability and gratification ?

Don't know about KV, however they often offer an instrumental and when you try to buy the cdg/video with graphics, it states something that due to publisher restrictions they cannot offer the lyric version at this time.

According to post from the managing director at CustomBurn (KSF Entertainment), Universal has stated just the opposite that Tri was absolutely NOT paying anything to them.

4. Tricerasoft seems to be the focus here as they are the ones who appear to be the most active in the US for custom discs and downloads. I suppose they could avoid much of the adversity by simply stating clearly how and with whom they licence their content. I say this because when a major publisher like Universal is making statements like the one below - you have a problem. And not being transparent makes it worse...

"Tricerasoft has not obtained licenses to exploit Universal Publishing content in the US. In fact they have advised that they are not selling any content in/to US at all, and that they have geo-gated their site to sell only to consumers in Canada."

You are right to be cautious.

Best regards,

J. Grannis
Director, Digital Rights
Universal Music Publishing


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