Karaoke Forums

Could be, Lon. I know Nikkodo was licensed, and I know they produced the Nu-Tech discs- but I would not argue the time frame with you- I don't have enough info.

_________________
"No Contests, No Divas, Just A Good Time!"

" Disc based and loving it..."

Then I'd have to say that your knowledge is flawed. CB won't or can't produce any but a few licenses for a few tracks, and they have tracks out that are included in a PERMANENT injunction against production...

SC freely admits that their only licensing is from the UK, and that agency states that it's licensing does not extend to the U.S. or it's territories...- no U.S. licensing on ANY tracks.

Stellar seems to have a suit or two still outstanding....

On the other hand, Pocket Songs and Sybersound MAY be licensed, as I see no outstanding problems with them...

_________________
"No Contests, No Divas, Just A Good Time!"

" Disc based and loving it..."

Chip, though I thank you for the kind words, it's not just "talent" ( Though I'd like to think I have some.... ). It's remembering that we are running a BUSINESS. EVERY business, be it jewelry sales, running an electronics distributorship, a martial arts dojo, being a provisions or surplus broker,- whatever- has to deal with those that offer cheaper services.

When I hear a host say "Well, the other guy offered to do it for $50 bucks- what could I say?" I think to myself "If you don't know, then what are doing in business?". Part of any business is marketing, sales, and promotion- ALONG with offering a quality product.

WHY wouldn't you know how to reply? Don't YOU know what YOU have to offer? Haven't YOU put together a sales package? Don't YOU have a list of references?

Of course, if you think your show is library dependent, and yours is just a match for the pirates with nothing else to offer, then I guess you probably won't have a reply- because you think- like the venue owner- that you are the same as the next guy, except he's cheaper.

If, on the other hand, you can offer something different and better- and can articulate that benefit to the venue owner- then worrying about Cheap Charlie is a waste of time.

Please don't bother to tell me the above isn't true. I been at this for decades, with undercutters, burn pirates, and now PC pirates all along the way. I know better. I work over 250 bar shows a year ( and the second most expensive bar host in the area) and 30-50 private events. That's WITH all the pirates and even legit lower priced hosts surrounding me.

Why? Again- it's a BUSINESS. Too many people go into a new business (of any type) without learning how to RUN a business, and specifically not learning the specifics of that particular business. Nobody's fault but their own.

_________________
"No Contests, No Divas, Just A Good Time!"

" Disc based and loving it..."

I never implied any such thing. You seem to have forgotten the context of the conversation.

I hope you are not just selectively quoting lines in a deliberate effort to twist the meaning of what I said. After all, it was a direct response to a statement you made earlier in the conversation that I expected you to remember. Especially since I quoted the context of it for you in my response. And in total only 14 hours had passed since my response.

I will give you the benefit of the doubt and explain my comments for you:





In your statement you suggested that I want the “lowly little KJs" left alone.
I have never referred to KJs as lowly. Is that how you view us? Lowly and not deserving of respect? I’ve been wondering if that’s how some manufacturers view us too.

You also stated that most of the pirate KJs running shows are also the sellers.
I agree with you on that for the most part. That’s why I think the sellers are the ones who should be pursued and the KJs who are not selling should be left alone. It makes sense because "most of the pirate KJs running shows are also the sellers" hence, most who are not selling are not pirates and should be left alone.



What possible reasoning can you come up with for twisting my response to your statement?


I think we agree on the end goal of eliminating pirates from karaoke.
Where we disagree is the method of doing so.

I don't start with the assumtion that all KJs except me are pirates. I don't think anyone should be branded a pirate without proof (which is easy to get if they are selling pirated content).

I don’t believe it should be left up to one or two manufacturers who probably aren’t so much concerned with our best interests or the karaoke industry’s best interest as they are with their own profitability. I don’t begrudge them that either, their actions may be sound business decisions for them. In my view, they are not actions that will benefit the karaoke industry in the long run and I think they know it.

_________________
KNOW THYSELF

Well stated Joe. Until the Manu witch hunt began, that used to be some of the info that was shared on forums like these.

_________________
Paradigm Karaoke, The New Standard.......Shift Happens

JoeC
to some extent Joe I would have to agree and for over 3 years we were able to "hold our own" when the hoards over ran our area. Because we could provide the large tills consistently and were known as the best in our area....as the bars changed owners and more and more "Cheap Charlies" came in offering DEEPLY DISCOUNTED shows the conditions changed. Yes we were called back to venues that let us go.....after they tried 3-5 "cheap Charlies" and ran off the crowds. And occationally we would return at a bit of a higher rate and attempt to rebuild.....sometimes with sucess...sometimes without. But as More and More "cheap Charlies came each bar qwner would try to get us to reduce our rates and when we did not would try the newer "Cheap Charlies" even if the tills were higher than before with us. We will not return a 3rd time. I personally take pleasure in knowing that a bar we were at for 6 years and never had less than a 2000 till....is now lucky to pull in 400 on a good night....we will never spend another miniute of our time for that owner. Our business will grow again and I must admit we are not the best business people....we drive customers too drunk home.....we pay tabs when regulars CC's are not working.....we throw B-Day and other parties for regulars....we insure that everyone is accepted at our shows....these are not "Good Business Plans" but that is how we are.

Today we received 4 more calls from venues looking for legal hosts and we will drop off sales packets and speak with the owners(none of these 4 were served but the word is spreading fast)......we also raised our rates for new shows today. If we have availability and they accept the rates we will add 3 more nights...if we are booked we will pass on the leads to other legit KJ's in our area (at this point they are disc based but 1 has computerized is being audited within 2 weeks)...we all also have agreed to minimum pricing so I see bright light at the end of the tunnel

_________________
"Integrity is choosing your thoughts, words and actions based on your principles and values rather than for your personal gain."
Unknown
"if a man has integrity, nothing else matters, If a man has no integrity, nothing else matters."
Lee McGuffey

Sorry if I misunderstood the intent of your post, but I will explain!

Since SC and CB are going after "pirate KJs" not those who are disc based or truly 1:1 (allowing them to go through an audit to clear it up) then my assumption was that you were refering to those who were using pirated material but not reselling. Seeing as how you are not refering to those "pirate KJs" then I can see where I misunderstood the "intent" of your post.

Now that you have clarified it we are in total agreement, the manus should and are going after the pirate KJs both those using and selling!

_________________
"Integrity is choosing your thoughts, words and actions based on your principles and values rather than for your personal gain."
Unknown
"if a man has integrity, nothing else matters, If a man has no integrity, nothing else matters."
Lee McGuffey

You do realize that this is classic horizontal price fixing, which is a criminal federal felony offense under the Sherman Anti-trust act, don't you? It's also a violation of Florida civil and criminal anti-trust law.

_________________
Dave's not here.

LIKE

_________________
KNOW THYSELF

I doubt a handful of karaoke companies out of thousands setting a minimum price they will play for would be considered 'price fixing'. Sounds like they are just setting a bottom line price they'll do a show for IMO. Nothing more than anyone of us do now.

_________________
LIKE Lonman on Facebook - Lonman Productions Karaoke & my main site via my profile!

why is it that no matter what it is, every time someone here tries to do SOMETHING to improve the situation at all, somebody (not anyone in particular) has to pi$$ in their f!@#ing wheaties? don't lay down and die, but don't try to make it better. i don't get it.

_________________
Paradigm Karaoke, The New Standard.......Shift Happens

_________________
Never the same show twice!

You are welcome to set your OWN bottom line price for YOUR COMPANY. The minute you "agree" to do this with a competitor, it's illegal.

Let's not minimize it just because it's karaoke.

All we hear about is "legal this" and "legit that" and "certified legal" and all this other stuff. You want legal? Then do everything 100% "legal" and not decide you can conspire with your competitors to set a minimum "price or the clubs will be without" to improve your situation.

You want a level playing field alright.... as long as you can slant it your way.

An individual company can set any minimum price they wish for their service. When two or more companies sit down and AGREE to to set a minimum price, it's illegal. It's collusion. It's price fixing.

Here's what the DOJ has to say about it. http://www.justice.gov/atr/public/guidelines/211578.htm

_________________
Dave's not here.

You have a problem with expecting EVERYONE to abide by the law?
You have a problem with ETHICAL behavior?

Price fixing is NOT ethical. It's NOT legal. It's a FEDERAL CRIME. A FELONY. It's considered WORSE than Copyright Infringement or Trademark Infringement.

Breaking the law will NOT "improve the situation." It will only reinforce the perception of karaoke hosts as shady operators and IP thieves.

_________________
Dave's not here.

I especially like this part:


Some evidence looks pretty direct....


Looks to me like a few companies are guilty of price fixing.... Maybe I should "investigate to prove or disprove" what has been admitted to here.....

Again, illegal I agree, I just doubt anyone would see it that way if one company says to another, hey i'm raising my prices to this and the other decides to follow suit, and so on. Could be one company set their bottom line price & the others a following suit to stay competitve. Just because they all agreed to do that, doesn't necessarily mean price fixing. But I could be wrong.
I remember talk years ago on JOLT with people wanting to start a karaoke alliance (union if you will) of sorts where everyone would charge roughly the same price, have a basic equipment roster comparible to each other & same principles of rotation policy, be able to buy new discs in bulk at discounted rates, etc. I think that might consitiute more of a price fixing scenerio over a few kj's saying what they are now going to charge as their minimum price.

_________________
LIKE Lonman on Facebook - Lonman Productions Karaoke & my main site via my profile!

"Because they all agreed" is the problem and it IS price fixing.