Karaoke Forums

From an IP owner's perspective, almost everyone involved with the karaoke industry seems to be a bit shady and prone to play fast and loose with the law. KJs and manufacturers alike.

Clarifying the rules will work primarily to the legal KJs advantage.

You really should read the US IPEC legislative recommendations, Athena. If these are followed and enacted, IP law in the US will have some real teeth. Here's a link: http://www.whitehouse.gov/sites/default ... _paper.pdf

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Dave's not here.

Thanks Moonrider

ejoyed the reading but not quite sure how this is going to clarify the issues with Karaoke. The Public Performance Right for Sound Recordings is only refering to broadcasts via radio signal....what am I missing that is going to add teeth?

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"Integrity is choosing your thoughts, words and actions based on your principles and values rather than for your personal gain."
Unknown
"if a man has integrity, nothing else matters, If a man has no integrity, nothing else matters."
Lee McGuffey

For the most part I like the US IPEC recommendations but there are some that simply don't make much sense to me from a Constitutional stand point .... like the wiretap clause on infringment, those that think the manus are on a fishing expedition when they send an investigator into a venue will really hit the roof over this one.

But like many of the laws that are already on the books this one doesn't really do much other than increasing penalties (which is not a bad thing). There is however so much more they could clarify in the existing laws which would take the interpretation out of the hands of the judges.

Putting pirates in jail for one. Not letting them off lightly with judgements that most likely will never be collected. Keep in mind that the pirates aren't just the illegal KJs and hard drive cloners. They're the little fry.

There's the manufacturers of brands like Quik Hitz, Nutech, DK, etc. NOT A SINGLE ONE of those tracks are licensed. They're pirates. Yet I see KJs who proudly proclaim their "legit certifications" recommend and DEFEND the use of those brands on this forum. Most using the "not my problem" defense when the unlicensed status of those brands are pointed out. Then turn RIGHT around and deny that they support piracy! These companies are literally stealing the food from the tables of my friends and peers.

Let's not forget that Chartbuster and Sound Choice had to be caught and FORCED into compliance with the law. AFTER hundreds of millions of dollars of IP were stolen. I think they got off too easy. If I had my way, Debi, Norbert and the Slep bothers would be doing hard time. They stole other people's property. Over and over and over. I can only hope that the penalties meted out were enough to keep them from being tempted to break the law again.

So, you see Athena, from where I stand, you ALL seem to be a bunch of damn pirates. Some by choice, some, like you, unknowingly and unwillingly despite their best efforts to comply with the law.

Enforcement is one factor, and education is the other. Bloviating and finger pointing a la Chip, Joe C., W.O.S. and Thunder is simply a waste of energy and absolutely pointless noise. That's why I made a public request that all four be banned permanently from this forum. Their noise works to the pirates' advantage by confusing the issues even more than they already are!

Find out all you can about ALL the costs of all types of piracy. It's impacting YOU more than in just lost business for your karaoke show. Find out who the real pirates are, and how to ID their work. Then make the one small decision that YOU refuse to support any type of IP theft in any way. If we all make that one small decision for ourselves, we'll win the war against piracy.

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Dave's not here.

Moonrider...I thank you for taking the time to reply and do my best to educate myself that is why I asked what I was missing. If I understand your position correctly all the Manu's you listed are pirates...if that is not so please clarify for me...if that is the case what products do you suggest using for karaoke ?
I can only do what my sense of honor tells me is correct and defend my stance based on the information provided to me. I can only control those things within my direct control. I have never put into use a product known to be a "pirated product" and have snapped in half well over 1000 discs that turned out to be fakes after bulk purchases during the 17 years in business.
I am not trying to "stir the pot" but am really trying to see things from your perspective....if in your eyes I am a unknowing and unwilling pirate despite my best efforts....what do you think I could have done diffrent ? What do you feel can be done to"make the one small decision that YOU refuse to support any type of IP theft in any way". ?

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"Integrity is choosing your thoughts, words and actions based on your principles and values rather than for your personal gain."
Unknown
"if a man has integrity, nothing else matters, If a man has no integrity, nothing else matters."
Lee McGuffey

And where did you come up with the information that leads you to believe that Daiichi Kosho (DK) tracks were never licensed? I'll grant you Quik Hitz and Nutech, but not DK. Your statement to include them is absolutely baseless and the most ridiculous assertion I've heard in a long time.

So which other brands do YOU use that "might not be licensed?" Music Maestro? AmeriSing? Dr. Music?, Radio Starz, Pop Hits Monthly?, Sound Choice?, Chartbusters, All Hits, Dangerous, Mega Disc, Sweet Georgia Brown, Pioneer, JVC?



And let's not forget that while they were stealing from publishers, they were also committing fraud when they marked these tracks as "Used by permission" and raking in as much cash from unknowing KJ's....



Did someone die and make YOU God? You requested for others to be banned for not having the same opinion as you? Because that's all it amounts to. And you can sit there with a straight face accusing others of "finger pointing?"



Great idea... so what "perfectly licensed" brands of Karaoke discs do you use and know for a fact that they are 100% licensed - oh wise one? Please enlighten this wayward flock seeking your unending wisdom.

You want to pontificate what is the perfect scenario, but offer no solutions, insight, or even facts to back up your own rambling - other than to suggest that the forum ban anyone you don't agree with.

Moonrider,

Knowing and understanding the history of the products will help you a little. It has been explained several times by both Kurt and Debi as to what and why there were licensing issues involved with karaoke products from them, it had to do with a change in the rules with no one able to clarify them, once that was done the labels went retroactively for collection. This issue has been stated, clarified and is available in court records.

Yes there are many products out here that were totally pirated and you named a few of them, but many have not been in production from many years by the origional makers (just repirated by others and continued to be put on the market).

I also agree with you that those that are continuing to buy these products are in fact supporting piracy, the same as those that are continuing to purchase and use loaded hard drives.

As I said before, for the most part I like the US IPEC specifically the increased penalties, but I also think the laws should be more clearly defined and not leave so much open to interpretation.

This . . .



And this . . .



. . . are the answer to this. YOU've already made that one small decision.

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Dave's not here.

Moonrider....I'm sorry if I seem dense but honestly I am lost. What is the one small decision you are trying to point to ? If you do not want to continue on open forum please PM me. I am not trying to do anything but get clarification.

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"Integrity is choosing your thoughts, words and actions based on your principles and values rather than for your personal gain."
Unknown
"if a man has integrity, nothing else matters, If a man has no integrity, nothing else matters."
Lee McGuffey

i do believe you are mistaken about DK. Not even positive about Nu-Tech, although do know they were sued by Pioneer & Sound Choice in the mid 90's for copping their tracks & adding their own lyrics. But i'm sure all the manus at some point had tracks that were produced before getting the word that they could or not (ie Eagles 8125) or in All Hits, Sweet Georgia Brown, Mega Hits, or any other brand that has absolutely no contact info that most likely had no rights to begin with - but not having anything but speculation to go on, even these tracks cannot be proved.
But I do not believe a kj using those tracks would be considered illegal. Chartbuster even made a statement here about the illegal SCDG tracks, if a kj bought these in good faith from legitmate sources, they would not be considered illegal.

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LIKE Lonman on Facebook - Lonman Productions Karaoke & my main site via my profile!

With the current climate surrounding the manufacturers, I no longer believe in "good faith." I purchase discs in good faith for my business, and then was told if I continued to use them in a business environment, I would be putting myself at risk for being sued. Anybody banking on "good faith" is putting themselves in jeopardy, IMHO.

Birdofsong

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Birdofsong

Which discs were you told you could not use anymore? I have discs that have been out of print for years as well and have never been told that I cannot use them. I just know the manus cannot produce/sell them.

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LIKE Lonman on Facebook - Lonman Productions Karaoke & my main site via my profile!

I probably should have clarified that - the original DK sets were legit as far as anyone can tell. The Milleniums are questionable. The DK SCDG's that so many people recommend are flat out piracy.

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Dave's not here.

All this brings up an issue that has been bugging me for awhile.

I would be willing to bet SGB had little or no licensing. How exactly does one purchase the rights to unlicensed material?

You purchase the brand (trademark) and license any future releases from that brand. (there won't be any) but you can still go after anyone who uses your brand (logo) illegally (ie: copies of that LOGO).

At this point, using Sound Choice and potentially Chartbuster can put you in the legal line of fire, whether you're running a computer OR discs. And it's getting even more ridiculous even as we speak with venues being sued and Chartbuster charging an audit fee.

Thanks, but no thanks.

Birdofsong

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Birdofsong

NO COURT ANYWHERE would uphold that on a retroactive basis. You buy the trademark in 2011 then your protection begins there, no earlier.

Tell you what: You go and buy up whatever defunct label trademarks you want and then sue KJ's who bought them years ago for using them on a computer and we'll see how fast your case gets tossed and counter sued.

The Millenium sets were still licensed through DK. It was their last hoorah combining their Applause, Encore & Premier series together.
The SCDG's I would say yes - illegal.

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LIKE Lonman on Facebook - Lonman Productions Karaoke & my main site via my profile!

Original DK set was legit for the time, before sync was an issue in karaoke licensing. 7 Bamboo's DK set was purchased for $4,995.00 in 1994, they even have the receipt for it still (long gone are the songbooks that accompanied the set)

ABKCO MUSIC INC ABKCO v. STELLAR RECORDS INC didn't happen till 1996. Instead of becoming a victim of retroactively applied sync license, they got out.

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Living my life as Robert Cortese, 162 E. Jackson St, San Jose CA.

It's like the difference between high and low budget toilet paper, it really doesn't matter in the end. -exweedfarmer

Which is smarter? Just sticking to making/selling karaoke, while people all over the world create software FOR FREE that helps you sell it, or trying to compete with them and keeping it a closed loop while you blow your money into an industry (software) that you(the karaoke manu) knows nothing about?
-me

Oh, I hope you're serious...

In addition, I would contact any and all of those you can find not only currently named ( see posts here for lists) or contacted with letters of intent, but those who have already settled as well. They could also have recourse - via a class action suit- and may be a rather large source ( quantity) of some sort of contributions toward legal fees.

You're not just toying with my emotions.....?

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"No Contests, No Divas, Just A Good Time!"

" Disc based and loving it..."