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Just like the host tim has the choice whether to use the two manus product or to boycott it. Then the hosts are exercising their right to decide whether they will deal with this legal dog and pony show, or use other products where the Trademark holder isn't so anal retentive.

What I find fascinating are those who don't use the product, are out there ranting about it constantly. Putting so much energy into something one doesn't use is amazing.

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You can be strange but not a stranger

What I find fascinating are those who put so much energy into supporting a failed legal process policy, that is also amazing tim.

The pirate host that becomes legal may not have to raise his rates at all. Compared to the host that bought their original discs way back when and ponied up the big bucks. A new host starting out thanks to the manus making legal entry more affordable, would only in the case of DTE subscribe to Cloud and zap he has over 12,000 tracks, for only $99.00 per month. That works out to a little over 3.00 a day, less than the cost of lunch. If He decides to license GEM they have a easy pay system in place as well. After the cost of the license is paid then only a nominal fee is paid for renewal of GEM license. When you get down to it no matter how a host pays for his material, after the cost it is all profit. So the cost advantage of most established hosts have been eroded by the easy terms offered by the legal process manus.

What I find fascinating is hearing all this arguing from a person that has zero risk of being sued.

Actually we don't think they are "necessary" at all. You can play from original discs all day long if you like. It's when you want to make new copies of the product to use instead of the product that an audit becomes necessary.

You mean it becomes necessary because SC says it's necessary most other manus feel it's not necessary, right Jimmy?

and that is necessary (in your eyes only, zero music publisher and 0 karaoke manufacturers require this) because of the pirates. make them pay for the problem. not the hosts that in the eyes of the entire industry (save for SC) are customers shifting to another format.


almost LR, the correct statement would be
"You mean it becomes necessary because SC says it's necessary ALL other manus feel it's not necessary, right Jimmy?

Remember, even DTE/PRLLC do not require audits for shifted material and have stated that suits will not happen for lack of audit. this leaves ONLY SC in the "sue them all" thought process.

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Paradigm Karaoke, The New Standard.......Shift Happens

Points:

First, no defendant has been turned down for an audit because of an inability to pay the fee. We routinely offer discounted or free audits.

Second, the music publishers are not, generally speaking, legally or factually well positioned to bring actions against hosts. They would only be able to assert their copyright in the underlying musical work, because their trademarks are not generally copied. They would also be required to prove that they own the underlying musical work and that the operator did not purchase a licensed copy, which I can tell you from experience is a difficult proposition for the publishers. (Their records are in a continual state of disarray.) That makes suits against individual hosts too expensive to investigate and pursue as a rule. There is also a better-developed body of law regarding media-shifting with respect to copyright that is not favorable to the publishers' position. I can assure you that they are, however, looking for new sources of revenue and will pursue suits if they can ever work out the details.

Third, other karaoke producers work under different parameters. Foreign producers have the benefit of semi-compulsory licenses at much more favorable rates. Although Digitrax inherited the Chartbuster Karaoke catalog, it operates without the legacy burden of the costs of producing that catalog and has elected, largely, to forego pursuing piracy of that catalog by individual hosts. Other producers may have lower production costs and be therefore more tolerant of lower returns on their production investments. Others may skip out on royalties to the publishers.

Fourth, every SC disc carries a warning against unauthorized copying. The audit program was developed as an expression of the fundamental fairness of allowing good customers, who actually purchased the product, the convenience of ignoring that warning in exchange for our opportunity to verify that they did actually purchase the product. Regardless of whether other publishers and producers care about it, the fact remains that these good customers did ignore the warning and made themselves look like pirates. If you don't have a lawsuit program because you are simply going to tolerate piracy, there is no need for audits. We have a lawsuit program; therefore, having an audit program is helpful, if not necessary.

I know it's fashionable on this board to attack SC for the way it does things, and it has not escaped my notice that your posts virtually drip with seething anger at SC, but I have yet to hear any constructive criticism. What I read is "nobody else does this, so you shouldn't either," without any suggestions for how we deal with the actual circumstances that SC encounters. There is no other company in this industry that finds itself where SC is. Maybe that's somewhat because of some poor choices (despite the best of intentions), but it's mostly an expression of the rule that "the bigger they are, the harder they fall."

Baloney is still baloney Jimmy no matter how you slice and dice it. Since SC seems to be the only manu that is currently still on the legal warpath, it would seem prudent for a host not to use your product. If for no other reason than to avoid SC maybe making a mistake and dragging the host through the mud, to satisfy their need for compensation at any cost. The ends don't always justify the means.

There... I corrected it for you (by removing the words "have to"). This has nothing to do with profitability. It is all about supply and demand. Even if you convert those Pirate KJs into Legit/Legal KJs, there is still a flood of KJs out there, AND, there are still a whole bunch of UNDER-CUTTERS out there as well. These UNDER-CUTTERS have been out there for years, and I know many of them were Legit/Legal KJs from the get-go. Therefore, I don't foresee a change in how much the KJ will charge just because he might have been a Pirate KJ who became Legit/Legal.

And, keep in mind... Many of those Pirate KJs ran equally comparable shows (in some cases better shows) as compared to the Legit/Legal KJ.

By the same token cue hosts that are legal and have been around for awhile might be in a better position to lower their rates since their library was bought and paid for. The initial cost has been recouped in some cases many times over. Some hosts are high volume and they can lower prices and still come out ahead. What is better to have one high paid gig a week or month, or 6 or 7 gigs a week at a more modest price?

Some KJs here (on this Forum) are complaining about the fact that they are NOT able to get paid enough (in some cases, barely $75 for a 4 hour show). What KJ DO YOU KNOW OF who would be willing to charge less just because he/she has recouped his/her initial costs?????????? Even when SC came out with the GEM series, one of their selling points was, that with this legit library, and your receiving a Certificate of Authenticity with it, you would be able to CHARGE MORE than other (implied Pirate) KJs.

Not to mention, a defendant who settles and acquires a GEM set has to pay at least $9,000, plus an additional amount for installment billing, for 3,000 tracks. That's $3 a track, or more if you need to pay over time, which is at least comparable to the historic maximum retail price.

At one point it was probably more advantageous to wait to be sued, but not any more.

Jimmy wait to be sued for what? If you boycott the SC product you will not be sued, plain and simple. There will be no reason for a suit in the first place. I proved at least to myself that it was possible to run a successful karaoke service without any SC product.

Really cue is that what happened all of the certifications for CB and SC resulted in higher pay for the hosts that obtained them, and more work? I seem to remember a certain host from Arizona that frequents this forum saying his SC certification actually cost him gigs and didn't help him with either the venues or his fellow hosts. That he finally had to stop touting his certification in order to start getting work again. I seem to recall Paradigm said certification was not a positive experience.

I would add that any perceived connecrion to SC in my area gets you shown to the door.

Btw- Unauthorized Copy is meaningless without defining parameters, and Jim knows it. He also knows that my previous post was actually proven true on several occazions, be it in court with no evidence or with judges going on record as considering them trolls wrongly accused disc hosts, and on and on. The definition of a professional investigation is one that can produce actual proof of wrongdoing prior to suit. I guess you can figure out why Jim had to ask me to define it...

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"No Contests, No Divas, Just A Good Time!"

" Disc based and loving it..."

I didn't say that it resulted in a KJ earning higher pay. READING IS FUNDAMENTAL... Re-read what I wrote!

Just because SC used that as a selling point (a point made to get your attention and entice you into buying that product), doesn't mean it will happen.

Maybe I can put this in terms you can comprehend more clearly... How about this... "We make the best pizza in the city," or, "You've tried the rest, now try the BEST." I'm sure you've seen something like that or very close to it at some local Pizza Restaurant. Whether the statement claimed is true or not, it's a SELLING POINT. Comprende?????????

[quote="cueball"]



Just because SC used that as a selling point (a point made to get your attention and entice you into buying that product), doesn't mean it will happen.

It won't happen cue simply because it takes more than a certain brand of music to create a successful karaoke service. There is no magic wand it requires many skills, some luck and a lot of hard work. That is why so many fail, it is not as easy as it looks.

You really do know how to shift the conversation to ONLY what YOU WANT TO SAY!!!! My original quote to mightwhiz had absolutely NOTHING to do with what you seem to have moved it around to. You succeeded in dragging me along on the tangents, but now I am tired of it.

The bottom line is, I don't foresee a change in how much the KJ will charge just because he might have been a Pirate KJ who became Legit/Legal.

Everything else you (Lone Ranger) had to say in response to me has NOTHING to do with this one comment I made to mightywhiz.