Karaoke Forums

It has everything to do if the word commercial can be associated with the recording. Someone can record at home for themselves, no problem. Someone who records at home and uses it for any commercial purpose without getting permission (ie: to sell it, to use it as a demo for work or a gig) and it's a no no. It gets a little bit more dicy when you use a production karaoke track. Create the same recording in a bar and it's a recording created in a commercial setting. The BMI, etc fees do not cover the recordings (on purpose). That's the short version of what a lawyer told me when I asked about it. He admitted to not knowing how the karaoke production rights flowed but it was really not a factor here because it was a no no from the get go. There is no gray here like there is in other areas we discuss.

EXTRA!!! EXTRA !!! Read All About It!!!

The state police raids a karaoke bar and puts a rogue karaoke host in jail for recording a singers performance. We can all sleep safely now because the police are out there doing what they are paid to do.

Oh yeah. Six people were killed last night. The police have no suspects at this time.

Are you people for real? Do you really think that someone is going to get prosecuted for doing something so simple as recording a singer at a karaoke bar? If the singer made a million copies of his recordings and made a fortune doing it, then someone might be looking for their cut. Until that happens, I think it's safe to say that the powers that be won't be breaking down any doors looking for some bad recording made in a loud karaoke venue with tons of background noise. I can't believe the paranoia on this site sometimes. I have never ever heard of any of these things being targeted and I live in one of the most populated areas in the country. If it was going to happen somewhere, It would probably have happened around here.

99% of the pirates are still flourishing in the karaoke business and you think someone recording the ocassional singer is going to get busted???? PLEASE!!!!

There are thousands of kids selling lemonade in front of their houses every year. It is technically illegal and every once in a blue moon, some cop writes some kid a summons for selling food without some sort of license to sell food or drinks. It usually hits the news paper and it embarrasses every person of authority in the town and the summons gets tossed.

Could you imagine some big company suing the local KJ because he recorded some off key singer during a karaoke show? Is RCA threatened by the next "William Hung" going viral with his karaoke recording and cutting them out of their profits? Big companies go after BIG FISH. The local karaoke guy is not even on their radar. He's not even a little fish. He's Krill.

That's the difference in mindsets. It's the difference between doing what's right and doing what one can get away with. I feel strongly that a lot of the "gray area" topics here are right and not wrong and it's never been proven otherwise. I'll just say I am not one that drives over the allowed 5-10 cops give you. They give that to you because, in all honesty, it's too darned easy to challenge a speed gun up to at least 10 miles an hour and it isn't worth the fight for such a slim risk of success. The 5-10 essentially becomes a gray area. When it's proven that recording in a bar isn't gray, then I listen.

One last thought on this. There are karaoke hosts out there with 150,000 or more illegal karaoke tracks in their system and Sound Choice can't put them out of business. No matter how many legal KJs report these pirates; they can't seem to bring down the Jolly Roger flag from their ships. That being said, do you really think that anything in the karaoke world is a priority to any part of our law enforcement branches? HELLOOOOOO! NOBODY cares. Nobody that is willing to do anything about it, anyway.

So Bruce, according to you I can go out and murder people (or commit any other offence) and as long as I don't get caught I haven't committed an offence? That's good to know.

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You can be strange but not a stranger

Being in law enforcement yourself, why would you ask such a stupid question? Murder is usually a priority for the police and they will gather as much eveidence as they can to catch a murderer. Don't you watch any of the C.S.I. shows on TV?

There are BIG crimes and there are little crimes and there are itsy bitsy teeny weeny crimes that the police couldn't care less about. Some police departments won't even respond to an automobile accident if there are no personal injuries. If someone called the local PD and reported that some karaoke host was illegally recording the local Frank Sinatra wannabe...The police dispatcher would probably think it was an April Fools prank.

Have a nice day. Breaking some karaoke law is not going to get much attention from the law, no matter how much you want them to, Tim. Karaoke is at the very bottom of the priority list, until someone gets shot for doing a bad Elvis impersonation. Then the cops will show up, with the C.S.I. team too.

Saying no one cares is way not the case. I bet you BMI and the like cares. They cared long before karaoke when people would record a band or performance live and it ended up on the radio. I bet if BMI just happened to come in they would care and the bar could easily be fined. And my guess is the bar wouldn't like it too much to the tune of letting the "recorder" go on the spot.

I've worked in bars off and on since the 80's. I've never seen one person from BMI or ASCAP walk in and ask for any paperwork. You guys really do live in a fantasy world.

You don't deal with them. The bar owner does. I KNOW they have been to the bar I worked.

I've said it before and I'll say it again. The enforcement on these types of minor infractions are minimal at best. I'll take my chances that with the thousands of bars in my area, the karaoke/BMI police have much better things to do with their time than hassle some guy recording drunks in a bar.

Have a nice day. You sound like the guy that would call up on the little girls for selling lemonade on the sidewalk without a permit. If your competition is beating you because he is recording his singers at his show, then follow suit and record your singers too. Problem solved.

Don't you watch any of the C.S.I. shows on TV?

Actually I don't. I've seen a few episodes and they were pure crap. Police work on TV is vastly different than real life.

I know the bars sell beer, liquor, and wine along with food but I never see the suppliers. So what are trying to say, because you don't see it, it doesn't exist? Now who has to get real? Your attitude is, if there is little enforcement then it is ok to break the law, which to me is another term for BS.

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You can be strange but not a stranger

Let me jog a few memories, though some people on here may be too young to remember...
Remember at some theme parks, malls, and even some shops set up in towns, they used to use the old cassette tape karaoke with lyrics on paper, to record you singing a song on a cassette of your own. Later they briefly used the super K tapes with on screen lyrics, and they'd make you a star for about 20 bucks or more. They'd put you in a booth, and people on the outside could even watch and hear you. I checked into it, and everywhere I turned for information, pointed to the fact, that they had nothing, in the way of legal permission. Do you think legal pressure put them out of business? No, they couldn't make any money, especially when cheap home karaoke came out, and you could make a better sounding cassette, than they could, seeing they hired people, that didn't have a clue about mixing, and they never gave you much time to get the song down. You might say it was the wild west of karaoke, here in the states, and plaintiffs were just trying to figure out how to recover, what they had to prove was lost revenue. If anyone can point out, one of them being prosecuted, I'd sure be interested, as I've never heard of such a lawsuit filed back then. That doesn't mean there wasn't, so enlighten me.....thanks......jr

Wear a logo on a youtube video, and you have violated copyrite law. Have a business website with your picture, and you're wearing a Bears Jersey....ditto....etc...

Bruce: Anyone with a half a lick of common sense would not come to that conclusion. I've been to a show that recorded performances. I had a blast (didn't pay for the recording) and it didn't bother me in the least that they did it. I didn't run to the BMI police and I really didn't care. It's wasn't my fight. All I've spoken of is my experiences and the opinions I've derived from those experiences and how I acted on those opinions and experiences. I really don't care if someone records or not. This is a place people can come for information. The info is here and they have to decide what they do with it.

My points are simple. Recording at shows is not a gray thing and, yes, it was one of the very early things that artists, labels and production companies cared about. It goes way way back to the beginning of radio. Take those points as you will but don't start blurring the true with your Bruceisms. Or do it and look silly....

They had a record your own Christmas song booth in the Mall here one year. There was always a line of people. It lasted two weeks then it was gone. Choosing not to pick a fight with a big theme park doesn't mean it was legal. People have settled with SC who were disc based just to get out from under it. It doesn't make them guilty.

I have, no fantasy - but reality. Happened to three clubs I worked at - ASCAP was in town. My current one - they figured since they were tribal, they didn't need to pay, they were wrong and now pay all 3 societies for over 15 years, and two past clubs. One of them actually shut down all entertainemt until their licenses were caught up - that was about 2 weeks. The other one was fairly new & paid their fees the same week.

There was a club in Eastern WA (back in JOLT days) that actually got their liquor license revoked because they refused to pay their PRO fees. Sorry cannot find any link on that anymore, it's been quite a while.

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and since the Tribes started paying their FEES, have the agents for BMI or ASCAP come back to check if they were recording karaoke singers? When was the last time they came back since they started getting paid?

On a similar note: How many times has SOUND CHOICE gone back to investigate someone who willingly paid for a GEM series? Once they get their pound of flesh, most of these "agents" move on to the next BIG fish.

I not only worked in bars. I mangaed some of the places I worked in and the only person there during the day accepting deliveries and any other salesmen and liquor reps was ME. No one ever came looking for performance fees while I worked there. Maybe because they were already being paid? Those agencies are not going to waste money sending their people out to catch some karaoke host who is working an establishment that is already paying them, on a hnch that someone moight be recording a karaoke singer. There is not a boogie man hiding behind every corner. There probably aren't 50 people in the entire country that run around asking bars to pay their BMI fees. It's more likely that you'd get pulled over for doing 56 in a 55 zone. Why so much effort to try and scare people out of doing things that are fun for their customers? Is Don Henley gonna starve because someone sang an Eagles song and a KJ recorded him singing it?

Henley's reps went after SOUND CHOICE for SC8125. Have they ever sued anyone for using that disc in a bar? NOPE! Do you really think they'd sue someone for recording an Eagles song in a crowded bar setting? ..and what are the odds that they'g be in a bar at the right moment that it was happening?
Anybody here ever taste a grape or a cherry when they were grocery shopping? Were you arrested for stealing? because that what you were really doing. Come on people., Wake up.

Never said it was legal, Boo.......just trying to point out it wasn't anything new..... ........charging big bucks for the service too.........very illegal in my book.....that's where I'd draw the line(just where my moral compass points)....I wouldn't do it for a fee, and it's too much trouble to do it for free......but nobody seems to care, if so, show me an article where someone was sued for making an audio copy for a customer.....or at least Topher whipped their a$$....

Since I just asked Mr. Harrington a similar question in the "SC- Facing Sanctions In California?" thread, let me apply a quote from him right here...

Who? Who are these disc-based hosts who settled with SC?