Karaoke Forums

The busiest KJ/DJ company still willing to advertise in Richmond is Nard's - a multi-rigger who runs up to 4 shows a night, isn't certified, named in a suit, and shows no visible sign of being willing to settle.

Who'd a thunk it? Of course, 18 months ago there were almost 100 karaoke venues listed here: ( http://www.richmond-karaoke.com/ ), now there's 42. Some of those shows are still going, they just went "underground."

It's not a healthy scene around here, and steadily shrinking. The Sound Choice suits seems to have given karaoke and karaoke hosts in the area a reputation of a "potential source of trouble," and that's only going to be reinforced when Chartbuster files in the area.

_________________
Dave's not here.

Obviously, the venue haven't been just scrambling to keep the entertainment going by offering those "certified" companies more money have they?....



Bingo!....

But, but, but... remember: They're simply out to "fight piracy and help you make more money" right?

Here's the case where their methods have done nothing to help any KJ's in the business but to simply sell product and it appears as though it's done more to shut down the entertainment than anything else...

Yep... it's a stampede of the "Gulli-bulls!"

I'm not familiar with the area, but in the whole state of VA there are only 3 KJ's listed on both CB & SC's certified list, and an additional 2 on SC's list that isn't on CB's.
How many show's can 5 KJ's fill? Are there any in that area available to fill in those shows? Just because the shows are dropping doesn't mean they're not looking for certified KJ's. Just my:2cents:



I agree that it does appear that the manus only have their own current interests in mind. If I report a pirate and he settles how does that help deal with the saturation of the market? It doesn't and the manus don't seem to care about that or KJ's.

The main reason I'm interested in the audit process is avoidance of being named in a suit. Maybe I shouldn't be concerned with it, but just seems like a pain if I can avoid it and if I'm 100% 1:1 I really shouldn't have to, and really shouldn't have to spend $$$ to prove I spent $$$$$!!

Honestly I'd rather the manus make an example of some of these pirates (confiscate equipment, make them pay through the nose for their library, etc....) and hopefully run the rest of them off. That seems as though that would better help fight piracy.

I guess that doesn't do well for the manus current revenue. Long term if they scare off the venues and legit KJ's can't find work...piracy won't be a problem will it?

_________________
My statements, opinions and conclusions are based on my own personal experiences, observations, research and/or just my own $.02. I'm not a "cheerleader", but that doesn't make me a Pirate.

OK I finally found it on their site (you have to be a registered user) and saw this:

The annual cost for application to the program is $199 for each system that the KJ/hosting service operates. This non-refundable fee covers the cost of auditing and certifying each system. We only certify systems in the United States, and we reserve the right to refuse certification to non-qualifying applicants at our sole discretion, or to modify or discontinue the program at any time for any reason. Certifications are valid for one calendar year from the date of certification, and expire annually on that date. The fee is applicable to each system to be certified – multiple systems will each require their own certification. You must apply each year to maintain your certification.

$199 per system per year!!!!!! and it is non refundable and they reserve the right to refuse certification to non-qualifying applicants at their sole discretion!!!!!!!

You have to pay the $199 up front and then if they decide to refuse you don't get your money back!!!!!
What kind of deal is that???? Pay for something that you may never get

I looked over the list of "Certified KJ's" and wonder just how many will be on the list next year.

I know this one won't be and isn't now.

_________________
I like everyone when I first meet them. If you don't like me that's not my problem it's YOURS!
A stranger is a friend you haven't met yet

It's not really a problem for me. it just means that weekday band gigs are easier to come by, and they're paying more.

When I discovered what a legal limbo karaoke-land was in 2009, I wanted nothing to do with running my own karaoke business, and hosted my last show for someone else this time last year. It's too easy to get sued in spite of being scrupulously honest and ethical. I stuck with the band. The rules are well defined, plus Sound Choice and Chartbuster provide killer examples of why that's a GOOD thing.

The prices the band gets have steadily risen in the last year, too.

_________________
Dave's not here.

Actually, I have had to turn down a gig in the Richmond area that has called because of the lawsuits, I believe that Loneavenger has also turned down show request because he couldn't cover them as well.

18 Months ago there were over 100 karaoke venues listed in the Richmond area and you may be correct that there are now only 42, perhaps it is a sign of the reduction of available KJs in the area and not an unwillingness to have karaoke. The little town I am in 2 years ago had karaoke in 8 venues with small to mediocre crowds in most of them, this year there are 4 venues 3 of them with slam crowds, that doesn't mean there was a drop in venues willing to have karaoke the problem was a major drop in KJs available to do karaoke. We still have one operator who's boss was named in the Sound Choice suit, but his library dropped from 125,000 songs down to around 2500 songs and both venues he had been working in have called me recently. A KJ who had shut her business down three years ago due to pirates working in the area just last month brought her system out of mothballs and I have already hooked her up with one gig and have her talking with another venue as well.

As for bands picking up work, yes they are and it is good to see, I have interest in two local bands and both of them are picking up extra work now. As for the pay, yes they are each getting better money also now instead of each of the four members taking home $50 to $75 each they are now getting closer to $100 each so it is getting back to near where it was back in the 80's.

I hope to see both SC and CB clamp down harder on illegal KJs because for every one that settles two others just disappear.

THANK YOU, Moonrider! Well Thunder? Still want to say I was lying about my area? Moonrider is in a completely different area too....YOURS!


Had a thought strike me last night about SC.

Since they no longer manufacture, their income comes from possible sales of the GEM sets to KJs, and settlements.

Subtract the GEM sets sold through settlements, and I don't think you will find the GEM sets being sold in huge quantities.

This means that the only real cash flow SC might have is through settlements, and their attendent ( forced ) GEM sales.

What does this mean? Well, here is my aforementioned thought:

It is my personal opinion that SC may be dependant on piracy ( not necessarily pirates- SC'll go after anyone ) for the cash flow to keep their doors open.

Ya sure they want to eliminate piracy?

_________________
"No Contests, No Divas, Just A Good Time!"

" Disc based and loving it..."

_________________
Never the same show twice!

I actually have no argument with anything you posted, except my motivation. This is why I posted it as MY BELIEF, not as fact.

Though I know of the other sources of income that you mentioned, it is MY BELEIF that the sum of all doesn't amount to a whole lot. That is what brings me to MY OPINION.

I'm not arguing with you, but only saying that 1) the figures aren't available for the sources mentioned, so you don't KNOW any better than I, and 2) The fact is SC HAS scaled back to about 13% of their original size. This indicates a LACK of resources to me.

BTW- you mentioned SC's production plant. Since they can't make Karaoke discs here, this would be more of a liability than an asset at this time. Even if they have subcontracted to make some discs for others, much of the facilities there would remain unused- and I haven't heard of them subcontracting. Have you?

_________________
"No Contests, No Divas, Just A Good Time!"

" Disc based and loving it..."

lemme see if I have this straight...

We can't give you permission to format shift, but we can and will charge you $200 per year in exchange for a promise maybe not to sue you for format shifting.

I been a KJ for 20 years. I may be one for another 20. Over that time I'm supposed to pay CB $4000 (if they don't up the fee) to make the highest & best use of a product I already paid for?

CB is 10-20% of my library. What if the other manus start charging audit fees? PHM, SC? What if the European manus smell this cash cow cookin and come calling as well? $1000 or more a year per system for audit fees?

whaddya get when you take the OO outta GOOFY?

I think way too many are reading way too much into this. Chartbuster can not force you to become a listed certified KJ, and they aren't asking you to do so against your will.

If you want to get an audit and become a name on their list it is available for $199 a year. If you don't want it then don't pay them for the privledge.

If you want to run on a computerized system using the Chartbuster content no one says you can't do so, if CB files suit against you you can take care of it in one of two ways, have your system audited before you go on the docket or prove that you are 1:1 and did not violate CB's rights in the process and have the case dismissed. If they don't file a suit against you then you didn't have anything to worry about in the first place.

If it isn't going to affect you or your business one way or the other then again you didn't have anything to worry about.

How bout I don't want my name and reputation defamed by being named in the lawsuit to begin with. And I don't want to pay 200 per year per manu to avoid said embarrassment and humiliation.

Pay up or be sued. Worry about removing your name from the lawsuit after the fact. Great way to treat customers!

I wonder if you get a discount with pom-poms? Or a dime store detective kit?

_________________
My statements, opinions and conclusions are based on my own personal experiences, observations, research and/or just my own $.02. I'm not a "cheerleader", but that doesn't make me a Pirate.

It's simple then don't run an illegal system, if you are running on disc they don't bother you in any way. If you want to run on a computer "legally" then you need to do what it takes to be legal, "get permission" to use the files on a computer to avoid having your name or reputation "defamed" and avoid the embarrassment and humiliation in the process.

Again, nothing to pay if you are running legally, unless you want to do so with the use of a computer system and copied files!

I personally like the idea!


No I got the secret decoder ring!

I give up. You win the debate. Your logic is astounding.

Did you get the ring in a box of cereal?

It's called "trademark extortion" so let's not try to justify it or sugarcoat it.

What's next thunder? Are they only going to sanction certain players?

Cracks me up that the manufacturer with the largest judgments on record for willful copyright infringement (read as "piracy") are now charging their formerly duped customers to be a "certified non-pirate?"

It is to laugh....

I think the whole thing is silly. You paid for a license to play their works (and I don't believe for a second that they didn't know the main market for their products was Karaoke Hosts) so what difference does it make what sort of machine you use to play it? Do I understand correctly that CB's complaint is that the copyright for their company name and logo are being infringed? I can fix that....

_________________
Okay, who took my pants?

I am reserving my opinions until I have all of the details about the program. At this point no one seems to know what all of the benefits will be for the program or what exactly the fee per year will cover. Once things are made clear by CB we will decide if we will form an opinion.

_________________
"Integrity is choosing your thoughts, words and actions based on your principles and values rather than for your personal gain."
Unknown
"if a man has integrity, nothing else matters, If a man has no integrity, nothing else matters."
Lee McGuffey

agree, there is more info needed. as far as needing to get permission to use the music on a comp, if i just bought the 6000 on SD card, that is made specifically for use on computer, most likely with Compuhost which i can buy through the CB site. do i still need to pay 200 a year to use it as it was created and intended? too many untied ends on this one as i can see.

_________________
Paradigm Karaoke, The New Standard.......Shift Happens

Interesting pattern here:

Notice how most of the staunch "cheerleaders" now suddenly are not committing to an opinion on this "certificate for sale" issue? (Thunder is but that's only because if he cheers the loudest, no one will look closer at what he might be hiding under some noses - IMHO.)

Athena: why are you reserving judgment? This is not a difficult concept - it's simply a protection payment according to Thunder's description: Pay the fee every year and guarantee you won't get sued OR don't pay it and take the risk that they will sue you and severely damage your business reputation.

So simply mail in your $400.00 (2 systems right?) PER YEAR and you'll be good to go...

The whole idea that a vendor can determine what is "legal" is such a load of crap. The only entity that can determine that is a law enforcement agency (cop).

#1. If you are 1:1 and DON'T pay this protection money, then they say that they will determine that you are "illegal" and sue you?

#2. If you are 1:1 and DO let them look into your underwear and pay them for the privilege to do so, then you are determined to be "legal?" - but only for a year until you pay them again..... (isn't that how the Mafia operated? Protection money for a period of time?)

What a load of crapola....