Karaoke Forums

It looks like they are clarifying/solidifying their position as they have entered the legal fray. Here is the link so people can read it for themselves. Of particular note is under "How to run a compliant show" where they say that in the abscence of written permission from them to shift to a computer, you are subject to investigation. Pretty much spells it out as far as their latest position.

http://www.chartbusterkaraoke.com/hosts-safe-harbor

My 2 cents.

Are downloads "legal" to use in a show? Maybe, as they are not exactly "illegal" either.

Is anyone going to come after you for using a legitimately purchased, downloaded track in a show? I seriously doubt it.

Yep! Bad Crack. CB's downloads were never intended for commercial use and when they offered then there was a notice on their site explaining that.

Step away from the pipe

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No venue to big or too small. From your den to the local club or event, we have the music most requested. Great sounding system!

If you are using a downloaded CB track that you paid for (regardless of where you purchased it) in your show and don't have the disc to go with it, yes you can be sued by CB for trademark infringement. It does spell that out on their website.

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No venue to big or too small. From your den to the local club or event, we have the music most requested. Great sounding system!

If sued, who will win?......that's ifin you bought the download, I mean......doubt we'll ever know......

Actually I think we will know soon. Chartbuster is cracking down on KJ's now too.

Oh, I am sure it says that. I just do not believe that any vendor, even Chartbuster, is going to act upon those who have legitimately paid. They have much bigger fish to fry.

Now, pirates, SCDG's, etc, that's a different story.

Now the problem seems to me the attitude of "I bought it I can do what I like with it" This is patently false. For example, say I bought a "Star Wars" or any copyrighted movie. According to some on here I should be able to do what I like with it. However how fast do you think Lucasfilms would be on me if I decided to show it in a theatre and make money off it? I don't have permission to do so. It's that simple. They'd have me in courst so fast it would make your head spin. And I doubt I would get any sympathy from a judge.

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You can be strange but not a stranger

You have a good point, Tim, but we're not talking movies here. If you pay your three fees, why would this be any different than a cdg?
Which brings to mind, the cdgs that express not for commercial use.....

What 3 fees are you speaking of?

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No venue to big or too small. From your den to the local club or event, we have the music most requested. Great sounding system!

Take into account that JR is our resident comedian.
You must now use great imagination.

First of all, this is all food for thought, and that's why I often end with a question mark. Now, I haven't run a show in over 3 years, but I refer to the venues paying three fees.....ascap, bmi, and I thought one for lyric syncronization. Whether it's two or three, running karaoke for an establishment that fully complies, and I play a download that cost me $2 from CB.
First it's my right as a defendant(if sued by CB for this action) to request a trial by a jury consisting of 6 of my peers(being a civil suit). Now I would use an if-then defense, stating that if it's allowable to buy a cdg (containing 16 or 17 songs) from an authorized retailer for as little as $5, and convert all 16 or 17 songs to mp3g at a 1:1 ratio and play them, then I should also be able to play the 1 song(already in mp3g form), which I purchased(as a download) from CB for $2.
What thinks anyone, if you were on the jury?........

ps....Rum, I have a good friend that lives in Clinton.....could you pm me where you KJ, and your schedule for when I'm out your way.......no hurry.....thanks...jr

sometimes I try to be serious, and I can't say, I always have my facts straight.....I'm not a karaoke god, like some people on this site.........but I do know the laws are a bit different, depending on the country in which you live.....

ps.....jer, have you ever been to the states?

Johnny, first of all you have to get a win on the 1:1 ratio for a commercial enterprise first off. Second, just because a manufacturer tells you it's ok to shift, copy or whatever, doesn't mean it's legal in the eyes of the law. No more than your car dealer telling it's ok to drive at 140mph just because the speedometer goes that high. It's not as cut and dry as you think. Like I said in another thread, if someone wants to fight it, be prepared to pay tens of thousands of dollars or get a lawyer to do it for the publicity.

Johnny, whether it is music or a movie, it's the same law. People get up in arms because the word karaoke or CD+G isn't used. I don't believe the word movie or TV show is used either, the words that cover them is audio, visual, and audio-visual.

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You can be strange but not a stranger

Actually I haven't seen a cdg to date that says not for commercial use. I have seen the disclaimer 'unauthorized public performance prohibited' which basically means if the club isn't paying their 'big 3' licensing, then the playing of the discs are not legal for their club. If they are paying, then the playing of the disc is no longer unauthorized.

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LIKE Lonman on Facebook - Lonman Productions Karaoke & my main site via my profile!

They're the ones suing, and they set a precedent by allowing you to play an mp3g track, if you have the cdg. No one knows what a jury might decide. It still looks to me that format shifting isn't legal. We're not talking pirates, which is an easy call, and this particular scenario, may never come before a jury.

As far as a cdg expressing "not for commercial use"......I thought I remembered someone on here claiming that, though I must admit, I've never witnessed this myself, and now that I think of it, a cdg would have a hard time expressing itself.
Lon, what's your opinion on using, a purchased download from CB, in a show? I'm sure you wouldn't need to, because you have tons of cdgs, but if someone needed to use one. Seeing, I haven't done a gig in quite some time, and don't plan on doing it ever again, it doesn't pertain to me......I'm just trying to take one angle of the discussion. I was very content, just using cdgs.....I started out with cassettes....

SESAC is the third one, Johnny. They're all Performing Rights Organizations.

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Dave's not here.

I took a cdg down to my buddy's theatre. We charged 12 bucks to get in, 10 bucks for a tub of popcorn, and 4 bucks for a pepsi....we sold out........guess Tim was right.......

Friday we're showing a double feature.....SC8125 & SC8338.......in 3D ....

Chartbuster Karaoke
Major Poster




↓ details
Re: Mr. Grimes? Can you answer questions about new CB SD?
Posted: Fri Oct 22, 2010 5:49 am
Lonman @ Thu Oct 21, 2010 3:10 pm wrote:
Chartbuster Karaoke @ Thu Oct 21, 2010 2:33 pm wrote:
Lone Wolf @ Thu Oct 21, 2010 9:14 am wrote:


Are you saying that you can NOT use your digital downloads at a show?
I thought that as long as it was played from the HD that it was originally downloaded to it was ok.


Not at all, and it's fine. Those downloads are registered directly to you and you alone, so there's no question of ownership.

Question - I can only download at home, no internet reliable enough at the show. With this question Lone Wolf brought up about having to be on the computer it was downloaded on only? Or would I be able to download & transfer the file to my show computer?


There's no question of who owns that digital download, and you're allowed a backup.

But I'm curious: if you wanted, why couldn't you bring the show computer home for downloading?
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i knew i saw it, right here in this forum as well. in no uncertain terms, Chartbuster downloads were ok for Show use.
in a nother thread i think it was Lonman who was discussing the problem of only using original hd it was downloaded to as his install was permanent and not going online with it.

Author: Chartbuster Karaoke [ Wed Jun 02, 2010 3:03 pm ]
Post subject: Re: Are Chartbuster Downloads legal to use in a Karaoke Show?
Apologies for taking so long to reply - and thanks to leopard lizard for starting the thread as requested.

From our website: "You are allowed to make a single copy of your Chartbuster Karaoke discs for archive purposes only. Please note that this does not entitle you to use those backed-up tracks for any other purpose than as a back-up, including playing, sharing, distribution or performance.

"Karaoke shows that use tracks stored to a hard disk drive are doing so in violation of the Chartbuster Karaoke license printed on the original disc. Unless the tracks were purchased as digital downloads and are being played from the original disk onto which they were downloaded, the operator is in violation of the license."

You will note that for the purposes of a track that is ripped from a disc, only the disc is authorized for use in a Karaoke Show setting, and not the ripped track.

When you purchase a digital download from our online store, you are given a receipt from that transaction. It is the only record you will have that you legally obtained the track, since no physical disc accompanies the purchase.

If you have a digital download, have your receipts, and are performing a karaoke show, as long as your other licenses are in order, you are authorized to use a Chartbuster Karaoke track purchased in this fashion in your show. This does not confer any other license to you - you must still conform to applicable copyright and performance rights laws, along with any other restriction(s) that may apply. It only expressly means that the use of the Chartbuster Karaoke rendition is authorized by Chartbuster Karaoke, and no other licenses, explicit or implicit, are conferred.

In addition, you should note that in cases of this nature, the courts have yet to determine what distinguishes a back-up copy from an original. Bear in mind that there is no distinguishing feature that can tell any two digital copies apart, other than the media on which they reside. In order to hew as closely as possible to what we believe to be the letter and the spirit of the law, we believe that it is important that the purchaser only download tracks directly to the hard disk drive from which it will be drawn during performance. We don't know how this will eventually shake out in the courts, but until a precedent has been set, this is what we recommend. It may or may not save your entrepreneurial backside later down the road, but it might provide some protection.

Does this mean that the publishers won't come after you for using a digital download in a show? Well, we don't know, and I don't think anyone else does at this point either. They might decide they have bigger fish to fry, even if they think you are infringing. Or they might smell money and land on you with both feet. It's anybody's guess.

Please also note that we make karaoke, not law. We do our best to give you the viewpoint and perspective from where we are sitting. Do not construe any of this to be legal advice - when in doubt, ask your lawyer.

Is this unambiguous enough for the forum?

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and to clarify, this is not directed at Rumbolt, or for "haha i was right" this is just affirmation that i am not smoking bad crack......only the top line stuff for me.

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Paradigm Karaoke, The New Standard.......Shift Happens