Karaoke Forums

So, let's get rid of the trademark. I have software that will blank the front and/or back of a CDG file.

But isn't that silly? If you're driving a Buick should it say "Buick" on it somewhere?

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Okay, who took my pants?

You're referring to the copy of the trademark, right?

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My statements, opinions and conclusions are based on my own personal experiences, observations, research and/or just my own $.02. I'm not a "cheerleader", but that doesn't make me a Pirate.

Why should it?

Do you (as a patron) really care what brand of car the pizza delivery guy has (KJ) or are you simply interested in the pizza (song) he's delivering?

You are sort of correct but not quite the burden is equal in a civil case and a decision is rendered on the perponderance of the evidence. So the side that is filing will need to show evidence that a violation was commited with the laws that back up a violation, the respondent will have to show evidence that no violation was commited and the laws to back it up.

This is where the arguement that many use that they don't need permission to copy a file and use it in a public setting for monetary compensation will come in all they will have to do is show the judge the law that gives them that right, or show the judge that they never made a copy of the file for public use.

The perponderance of the evidence would be the greater weight, so call it a 60/40 split with the 60 getting the win.

Correct attached or unattached to a copy of a manus product!

To quote from the Legal-Dictionary.freedictionary.com

"The burden of proof is on the plaintiff (the party bringing the lawsuit) to show by a "preponderance of evidence" or "weight of evidence" that all the facts necessary to win a judgment are probably true...
...However, the burden of proof is not always on the plaintiff. In some issues it may shift to the defendant if he/she raises a factual issue in defense, such as a claim that he/she was not the registered owner of the car that hit the plaintiff, so the defendant must prove his/her claim. If at the close of the plaintiff's presentation he/she has not presented any evidence on a necessary fact (e.g. any evidence of damage) then the case may be dismissed without the defendant having to put on any evidence."
http://legal-dictionary.thefreedictiona ... n+of+proof

Note the word "shift" which I have highlighted. In order for the burden of proof to shift to the defendant, it first must have been with the plaintiff.
The highlighted last sentence also indicates that the defendant does not have to prove anything until the plaintiff has presented evidence to the claim.

Most people here need a definition of "Preponderance of evidence:"



There is certainly a big difference between what is "preponderance of evidence", "clear and convincing evidence" or even "circumstantial evidence" - which is what SC seems to really be relying on.

An example of circumstantial evidence: You're walking along and you see a tree stump that is about 3 feet high where the tree was cut and hauled off. On top of the stump sits a box turtle. Since turtles can't climb, how did the turtle get there? You can ascertain that someone had to place the turtle there. - that's circumstantial evidence.

SC's complaints assert that if a KJ is advertising "50,000 songs" then they must be a pirate. This is NOT circumstantial evidence because it is quite possible for any KJ to purchase a huge amount discs (whether or not they are what you'd consider a "good brand" or not) so it is not out of the scope of possibilities. It doesn't even qualify under a "preponderance of evidence" because it's not evidence at all - it's nothing more than hearsay - even if the KJ himself says it. KJAthena has readily admitted to being a "disc whore" so if you walk into her show and look at her complete song listing and see a computer, you'd immediately conclude that she was a pirate too.... And a law suit in Federal court was filed against her because of it.

A preponderance of evidence STILL requires evidence first, not just the "possibility of some evidence later."

My system has a cd+g player built in for patrons that bring discs. However, it's not readily visible nor is it possible for a patron in the club to know if I'm playing off a computer or the player or even if I'm playing their disc via the cdrom drive in my computer. Just because there is a computer in the room and an SC logo on the screen, it still does not equate to a "preponderance" of anything.

That makes it more illegal...shows you had intention. I'll sure be glad when all these issues are resolved in court tired of all the

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"Integrity is choosing your thoughts, words and actions based on your principles and values rather than for your personal gain."
Unknown
"if a man has integrity, nothing else matters, If a man has no integrity, nothing else matters."
Lee McGuffey

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My statements, opinions and conclusions are based on my own personal experiences, observations, research and/or just my own $.02. I'm not a "cheerleader", but that doesn't make me a Pirate.

Thank Murray, that was helpful to me.

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Paradigm Karaoke, The New Standard.......Shift Happens

Sounds like gd123 is your angel then. Someone with time and money willing to hire a lawyer to take it to a judge and force a ruling.

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Dave's not here.

well I cant agree with that......it is my personal opinion that gd123's lawyer is just out to make herself some cash.......the legal points that gd123 has posted here seem flimsy to me. just will be glad when the ing is over......

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"Integrity is choosing your thoughts, words and actions based on your principles and values rather than for your personal gain."
Unknown
"if a man has integrity, nothing else matters, If a man has no integrity, nothing else matters."
Lee McGuffey

So? Win or lose, a ruling gets made and things are clarified. That's a good thing, right?

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Dave's not here.

that is correct.....of course I hope the rulings come down on the anti-piracy side personally

_________________
"Integrity is choosing your thoughts, words and actions based on your principles and values rather than for your personal gain."
Unknown
"if a man has integrity, nothing else matters, If a man has no integrity, nothing else matters."
Lee McGuffey

find me a lawyer that isn't just out to make some cash.
it will be nice to have a definitive answer that is for sure.

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Paradigm Karaoke, The New Standard.......Shift Happens

A ruling as described above would have nothing to do with piracy or anti-piracy. It has to do with legalities of format/media shift. No one has ever said (to my knowledge) that pirates shouldn't be prosecuted, it's the prosecution/fishing expeditions of legal KJ's (like you for example) that is the argument here. You might not mind rolling over at every whim of SC or CB and that's fine - that's you. It certainly isn't acceptable for everyone else.

And, purchasing a disc only to be forced with the option of purposefully damaging it with a soldering iron or nicking it with a razor knife to avoid legal action regarding your purchase is really the stupidest solution I've ever heard of.

Have you melted your name into each disc you own? Have you nicked the hub with a razor of every disc you own? No? Better get to it then so you don't lose your certification....

Format shift my Donkey. Do you know how many times it "format shifts" just to get the noise out of your speakers?

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Okay, who took my pants?

wow, you have a donkey?

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Paradigm Karaoke, The New Standard.......Shift Happens

LIKE

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"Integrity is choosing your thoughts, words and actions based on your principles and values rather than for your personal gain."
Unknown
"if a man has integrity, nothing else matters, If a man has no integrity, nothing else matters."
Lee McGuffey

This is true both in civil and criminal cases the prosecuting side must show evidence that a particular action was committed by the defending party, at no time is the defending party compeled to put forward any evidence or even a defense to the charges. In a criminal case the prosecutor would put on evidence that would show beyond a reasonable doubt, it would then be incumbent upon the defenant to put on testimony or evidence to contradict the prosecution. The same in a civil case the plaintiff would have to put on evidence to show that a violation of their rights has been committed, the defending party is not compeled to refute it in any manner, in that case it would be decided entirely upon the laws as they were written and interpreted by that judge. If the defending party decides to refute the evidence then they would have to present compelling evidence in opposition to what the plaintiff gave as well as the laws to support their position.