Karaoke Forums

How can you make such a statement with zero proof? You've come here at stated a butt load of things that have easily been shown to not have much merit. It's time for you to be held accountable for all these bold statements. It's either proof with evidence of facts to back up your statements or its BS. Offering opinions? Go for it... But making these stupid statements without out providing facts? No more passes from me.

In order to claim that it is your "legal right" to media shift, you must have the original media in your possession in order to have shifted it. So therefore, if someone is "claiming" to be 1:1, then can't prove that he has the original media, then he is FOS!

Rum, the "Trademark Infringement as a starting point" statement you make is the one given by SC as the reason for their suits, claiming that trying to sue for piracy ( track theft) is too difficult. In fairness, SC never claimed to be pirate hunting, but rather to be "recouping losses" ( read as "income through intimidation as a new business model").

It was KJs who raised them up as the new Piracy Savior...

Well, no matter how they are perceived, it didn't work. Suits against media shifters are not a "starting point" for anything else. They are not pirate-killers and have made no dent in piracy. They are simply a source of income for those who bring them.

You are one of the very few left still hoping SC will save the world.

Time to let go. That wagon is hitched to a falling star.....

If you REALLY want to fight piracy's effects on your business, put on the best show anywhere, and put them out of business- something that isn't even SC's goal.

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"No Contests, No Divas, Just A Good Time!"

" Disc based and loving it..."

Joe,
You might think I am in the minority and I am ok with that. We don't share the mainstream view and again I am Ok with that too. However, my statement was a generalized statement representing a problem with the entire industry. Kjs that are not 1:1 have helped cause the downturn of our entire industry even if that number represents less than 10% piracy. Still does not make it right now does it? SC is just one of several manus that has take a hit from piracy even if you think it is their own fault.

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No venue to big or too small. From your den to the local club or event, we have the music most requested. Great sounding system!

Rum, I completely agree that track thieves have had an effect on the industry, and are PARTIALLY responsible for current problems. What they do is certainly wrong - but they aren't alone. Producers who were stupid ebough to put factory quality original track online without proper protection from hacking gave their product away. Back in the beginning, when KJs were dumb enough to run shows on their PCs, was what caused everyone who had a PC at home to believe they could become an instant KJs, especially with those MP3s mentioned above. Unlike discs, no cost fordjscs, copying time, transport, or the old Goldenhawk drive requirement. Free or cheap music. Those KJs gave their market away.

I predicted both would happen - simple common sense. Of course, folks on the forums decided that I was simply a Luddite. Unfortunately, they were proven wrong.

No, we can't put those cats back in the bag, but these folks can certainly stand up and take THEIR portion of the responsibility.

Next prediction? Watch the music sources dry up and stay dry while the publishers/owners restructure. I give most of the credit for this to the ever noisy SC, who may have been perceived by the now alert giants as infringing on their turf.

Expect, higher prices, fewer sources, longer release times, fewer artists available, etc... In other words, paying more for less. Thanks mainly to SC, though later folks like CB and PR didn't put them back to sleep...

One plus- We may end up with original music tracks. MAYBE.

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"No Contests, No Divas, Just A Good Time!"

" Disc based and loving it..."

I don't recall seeing anyone label you as a "Luddite" unless it was in response to one of your posts where you self-proclaimed being such (many times over).

wow, suddenly i'm to blame for the collapse of some manus by keeping up with the technology?
why exactly did you change from cassettes anyway?

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Paradigm Karaoke, The New Standard.......Shift Happens

Don't forget... Joe just called all KJs who run their shows on a PC dumb too.

I pretty much agree with you except... the producers that put the product on line (or not but it ended up there anyway so why would they put hack protection?) did so to generate revenue for themselves and their companies. The persons that took their product off the internet (online) and knew it was product that they should be paying for (moral issue) but yet did not, then duplicating it and passing it on and/or also using it themselves (1K's of times over) to make money but cutting of the revenue supply chain in the process is in my opinion why we are where we are. Some of the Kjs that surround us are our own worst enemies.

No fast forward, here we are today and perhaps Karaoke will become an industry that will have fewer host (because of the cost of and the way we will obtain the newer tracks) resulting in us all regaining our revenues including the producers. The other result I's love to see is the criminalization of internet theft to a higher level. They can track down child porn, why not karaoke?

Oh yea, I am also going to ignore the "dumb" too. When I moved to a PC (late 2007) I media shifted just what I owned and never did use any online downloads, so don't blame me. Going to a pc was "smart" for me!

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No venue to big or too small. From your den to the local club or event, we have the music most requested. Great sounding system!

Wait a minute, everyone had just as much access to a karaoke disc player as they did to computers. As a matter of fact, good disc players were CHEAPER than computers at the time, so don't blame piracy on home users discovering computers. It's easier to put a disc in and hit play than it is it is to manage the files and software on a computer. That makes no sense. Consumers saw KJs running shows in bars is what happened. The good ones make it look easy although we all know that it's not. So an investment in a disc player and speakers was no more than a computer and speakers to get started in the business.

You aren't going back far enough. When PCs were the new rage, along with MP3s, and I didn't go along with the proslytizers (SP?)- for now obvious reasons - I caught a HUGE amount of crap. Toquer was probably the most adamant, and I think he may have originated my Luddite label.

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"No Contests, No Divas, Just A Good Time!"

" Disc based and loving it..."

Not you alone, but think about it. Make something not only look easy, but add the following:

A collapsing economy leaving folks looking for income.

Showing, in public, that your business can be based on a piece of equipment that can be found in almost every home.

Add the MP3s that were available cheap or free, a couple of speakers, a mike and a cheap TV and - SHAZAM!- instant income producing business. And nobody thought this would happen? Seriously?

The producers put factory original quality tracks online, didn't protect them from being hacked, without the expense and time of copying discs and didn't foresee an EXPLOSION of piracy??? Really???

Please.... Laziness and greed by the industry caused the problems we have today. I posted what would happen (not psychic, just simple common sense) years ago.

Yup, pirates (track theives) suck, but it was KJs who ultimately shot themselves in the foot, along with the producers.

Don't want to take responsibility? Fine, but it changes nothing.

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"No Contests, No Divas, Just A Good Time!"

" Disc based and loving it..."

Disc pirates had to pay for blank discs, labels, transport, and convince a moron KJ to allow them to copy their library. To do this also required buying an expensive Goldenhawk HD and software, then- in those days- spending 20 min or more copying each disc. Including time, at best, disc prates paid a bit less than half price after all was said and done. MP3s? Free, fast download ( assuming we aren't talking about a cheap pre-loaded hard drive) no media or labeling costs. Minimal time investment. Pretty much an instant library. HUGE difference.

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"No Contests, No Divas, Just A Good Time!"

" Disc based and loving it..."

I must have missed that... It might have been in one of the more technical topic threads (which I don't really participate in, or read that much).



Those KJs weren't morons. Those KJs wanted to make a quick buck, and that was how they did it. Plain and simply put, they were GREEDY, and didn't care that what they were doing was Piracy.

Back in '98 and '99, I knew of several KJs who did this. They charged a few hundred dollars (no different than those selling pre-loaded HDs) for a burned copy of their entire library of CDGs to new KJs who were just starting out. The only difference in comparing the 2 now ('90's disc copying vs 2000's fully loaded HD) is the ease in making the copies and the quantity of songs (as you just pointed out). As for the mentioning of the Goldenhawk Software and the purchase of a Plextor Drive to burn the discs on, I don't remember that being so expensive. When I had decided to burn my own custom discs (made from my original library) and also to burn a back-up copy of my entire library, I think I spent $25 for the Goldenhawk software program to be downloaded to my Desktop, and I paid $30 for a Plextor drive on e-bay.

Goldenhawk software was free BTW if you wanted more than 2- or 3 times speed then yes it costed, but I could back up a disc usually in 20 minutes for free. The most expensive part was buying a cdg compatible cd drive - which usually didn't run more than $50. Discs were cheap when buying in bulk. The time spent was a matter of putting in the discs & hit start - then you go about your business of the day - when you hear the end sound, you change discs, hit start & continue with your day. It wasn't as big of a deal as you want to lead on. Unless you are wasting your entire time sitting at the computer for each and every disc, then yes, THAT would have been a complete and utter wasted of time.
As far as kj's wanting to swap libraries, I got that offer all the time - never took anyone up on it for the main reason - why the hell would I want my competition - beit pirate or anyone else, to have the same library I offered if they didn't want to pay for it - even though they were offering me their SGB CRAP (type quality) in return. Wasn't going to happen!

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Joe, I thought about it and I think your theory is nonsense.
Unless your point is that KJs shot themselves in the foot by merely existing, but I know that is not the point you are trying to make.
Think about this; KJs did not invent MP3.
CD players were introduced in 1982.
MP3 hit the world in 1995.
MP3+G arrived in 1998.
KJ hosting software came around 2003.
Once music went digital with CD players, it's movement to computer devices was an inevitable progression. KJs had nothing to do with the progression to MP3+G; the developers of each step along the way found a niche they could market to and the end users got on board because it was a good idea, and that led to more progress.

You are in error to blame whatever problems you think we have today on KJs who operate from a computer. The movement to computer was inevitable and those who moved early had the foresight to see the potential. It is a natural state of commerce to utilize the highest available form of technology to assist in achieving maximum output from minimum input.

If these industry ruining KJs had never used computer technology, and there were still no computer KJs in existence today with the level of technology that is readily available at this moment in time, then KJs would be known universally as the dumbest of all humans.

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KNOW THYSELF

First Joe refers to all KJs using PCs as "Dumb. "


And now, you're referring to those of us who choose to run a DB show as the "Dumbest of all Humans." I run a DB show, and I really RESENT BOTH comments." I have my reasons for not converting to a PC, and Joe has his. Since we appear to be a minority, that doesn't make either one of us the "Dumbest of all Humans."

Cueball,
I meant no personal insult to you, or Joe, or anyone who operates their karaoke shows from discs. I don't consider that dumb because you made a decision that works best for you after weighing the options. In fact, you are utilizing computers to enhance your shows in many ways (acquiring music, gaining knowledge, organization, etc.) and that's not dumb.
I respect your decision because it is a decision, not an oversight.

My point, which you have missed, is that if the entire population of Kjs were to have overlooked the potential that computers have to enhance their businesses, while every other industry in the world has already discovered that potential, it would be indicative of a special trait common to all KJs.

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KNOW THYSELF

Well, I'm still running lasers and I really blame all of you guys who jumped on the CD bandwagon. Suddenly people didn't have to pay $100 for a disc and songs become more accessible to the commoners. If you had only stuck to lasers than less people would be trying to be hosts. Especially as they would have a hard time finding laser disc players.

I would also have to blame SC for putting out all of that classic rock, blues and metal which caused people who might have been scared off by perpetual "New York, New York" to think it might be cool to run a karaoke show. Not to mention what the death of the guide flute has done to the business.

Not only that, hosts have become wimps from carrying around little laptops instead of cartons of laser discs. The market has been flooded with old people who couldn't have stayed in business if they still had to carry around such heavy music.

You people need to get your history straight.

Followinh Joe's logic, he is to blame for not sticking with laser disc, Those did not have really available duplicators. if it wasn't for morons like Joe leaving laser disc for the more modern technology of cdg and following the path of the manufacturers production methods, then we would not be in this mess.

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Paradigm Karaoke, The New Standard.......Shift Happens