Karaoke Forums

OK...here is the main issue, in one statement: A company cannot change its policy, and turn something from ILLEGAL to LEGAL. Companies do not enact laws (we won't get into lobbying and the sort...that is a whole other thing). I understand that, if stretched to the limit, the term LEGAL can be used to encompass policy changes; however, when discussing multiple aspects in a single forum, it is best to find different words to describe the scenarios. LEGAL literally means "of or pertaining to the law". If you do what a company requires of you, you are being COMPLIENT. Some may see this as semantics; I believe it is more than that, since the average reader would see the word LEGAL and think they are okay according to the law.

That being said, I think it would be prudent to use the word LEGAL when speaking in relation to actual governmental law, and the word COMPLIENT as it relates to a company's policy, the caveat being that being COMPLIENT does not in and of itself make one LEGAL (AND VICE VERSA would not apply here, since, in the long run, being LEGAL trumps being COMPLIENT when they are not one and the same). I would be amiss to not mention that there is a third position: for lack of a better term, since I have not taken time to research one, it is possible to be UNREGULATED, meaning it is neither LEGAL or ILLEGAL. Trust me: if a given company can find the means to be profitable under that particular umbrella, they most certainly pursue it--the path of least resistance...

I pretty much agree with everything you have said. The only thing I would point out is the publishers are the ones that hold the copyrights. Stingray owns the sound recordings. It will be interesting to see the new HELP agreement with the new "Publisher Pool" and all that it entails.

Yes and those sound recordings have a whole set of MASTER rights that do not belong to the original publishers, as if it was a brand new piece of music which according to the law it is..

I truly do not understand why we continue to go round and round about all of this.

We should be happy that ANY karaoke company in the United States is still alive.

I don't understand why there is any talk at all about master rights and the myriad of other crap that sends us off into the weeds.

The rights holders above the karaoke label level have never paid any attention to any individual KJ or even to large multi-rig operators. All the talk by some that the publishers are waking up is just talk. I am not saying it can't or won't ever happen, but until it does, it is just talk.

As far as SC/PEP/GEM/HELP goes......(@$%&#!) or get off the pot. Get certified or don't. Do HELP or don't. Buy a GEM or don't.

I don't think I have seen anyone switch sides in the 4 or so years I have been here. So it seems as if all people are doing is posting rants and raves because they have nothing better to do.

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-Chris

For the record, I paid for my certification and I am HAPPY with that decision, I am currently paying for GEM set, and in two more payments, they will send me the discs, and I will be an official GEM licensee.

I still think that the HELP program is the BEST *of all the options available* for multi-riggers. That does not mean that I dont have problems or issues with certain aspects of it.

-James

I'll tell you why. Axe grinding revenge.

There is always more to the story than what you see on the surface.

I certainly agree with the fact that a company should protect and profit from their product; I am just skeptical that they should be allowed to do it posthumously. If a company does not have the foresight or the wherewithal to handle marketplace changes, attacks on their product viability, theft and piracy, and the like, they should probably consider another product line, or attempt something else entirely.

you don;t get the discs until it is paid off?
how are you to run the shows to pay for it without it? (not you specifically, the general you)

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Paradigm Karaoke, The New Standard.......Shift Happens

No i am a special case. I didn't have the minium down payment of $500 that they require to pay for the licencing of the discs plus shipping costs, so what they did for me is they took my down payment of $250 and taylored a monthly payment plan for the total amount ($4500) over two years. When the total amount I have paid to date exceeds $500 , which will be in two more monthly payments, they will ship me the discs. If i had the $500 minim down payment, they would have sent me the discs immediately.

That basically gives me two months to find a gig to pay for them. I'm trying to use i as motivator to get of my arse an start working harder.

-James

ah, gotcha.

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Paradigm Karaoke, The New Standard.......Shift Happens

You're a karaoke business and you don't have any gigs and you don't have $500? Might should look at another line of work.

That's not nice!! Not everyone has money laying around to start a business, so they have to do it little by little. He is just getting back into it. He has said that. Give him some slack, and let him get his game going. I am glad we all don't have your attitude, Rick, because NOBODY would start a business if they did.

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I am the ONLY SANE 1 HERE

Smooth, I started my business with money I set aside from my full-time job, then was laid off from that job, along with the rest of the sales force. I was 52 years old, suddenly losing both a 6 digit income and health benefits, so I've been on the bottom myself. But to not be able to get a gig unless you have a GEM set is a stretch.

The way I see it is, we are living by antiquated laws from 50 years ago. Recorded medium has gone from wax cylinders, vinyl records, 8 track tapes, cassette tapes, CD's, and now downloads and streaming. And that's leaving some things out.

The laws governing the music industry hasn't really changed much if at all in all this time. The industry has and continues to change but not the laws. How can we be expected to follow laws that don't really pertain to this time period. As said many times, they need to change. We need a standard. We need to know what's black and white. What we can and can't do.

As it stands now, it seems that on one really knows. It's all guesswork. And it's all very confusing. Many publishers don't even understand the laws and we get many different opinions.

So, until the laws change, all we can do is follow the manufacturers conditions pertaining the use of their products. In other words, be complaint.

Yes, some of it is silly, I know. It's like buying a Hamilton Beach toaster, and the manufacturer says you can only use it with whole wheat bread only, nothing else. Since there is no law about what bread you can use in toasters, you can either comply with the manufacturers wishes or not. The appliance industry is not going to come after you.

The point is, as Chris said, this has been discussed many times. It's never going to change although it needs to. So...

Do what you need to do, go out and host karaoke and bring smiles to peoples faces and enjoy life and the people you love. Everything else is BS.

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Electro-Voice Evolve 50... Taking Sound To The Next Level.

As i have already stated, I am just starting over. I don't have any savings because I am unable to work full time. I live comfortably but have next to ZERO disposable income. The fact that I have managed to buy semi-decent equipment is quite an accomplishment in my book given my circumcances. The GEM purchase wasn't about NEEDING soundchoice music to be successful. This was about obtaining BETTER QUALITY music and a chance to round out my collection. I would say I have the best collection of oldies music ANYWHERE title wise, but I am SEVERELY lacking music from 1999 to present.

The reason i failed last time is because I wasn't motivated enough. I limited myself too much, telling myself I'd only take a gig if it was within an hour's driving distance. That severely limited my options.

This time around, I am willing to drive in to Calgary if I have to. I'd hate it with a passion, but I'm willing to make that sacrifice.

Also I have a better understanding of where I would be most successful. I would flourish in a family restaurant setting, like where I have managed to do all my birthday parties. Those events were always packed to the rafters and EVERYONE enjoyed themselves immensely. Its just a numbers game. I have maybe 20 people from karaoke and of those i have been able to get two of them to come to my gigs on a regular basis. At my church there are about 50 families with large number of children who would likely come more than once if I invited them.

There are plenty of really successful people who started with ABSOLUTELY NOTHING but a dream. I believe Bill Gates was one of them. Now I know I will NEVER be as successful financialy as he is, but the principal is still there. Besides I am not looking
to make a million dollars. I want to do karaoke because it is one of the few things I enjoy passionately and I want to share that with other people. If i can make enough money to pay for all my karaoke expenses, maintain equipment buy new music on a regular basis and have a tiny bit left over to go out somewhere nice every other month, I will considering myself a COLOSSAL success.

have a nice day

-James
-James

Well, I started with only 38 SC disks. Now I have 38 SC disks. I had 39 but one snapped. Pissed me off, too. It was one of my head bangers.

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I am the ONLY SANE 1 HERE

Shouldn't bang your head on your discs . . . They're not made to handle that! 8>)

Look, I understand your need have clear terminology, but this is simply not accurate, particularly when we're dealing with intellectual property.

The law gives certain exclusive rights to the owners of intellectual property. Those laws provide for the owners of the intellectual property to give permission to licensees to use the owners' exclusive rights. The owner of the intellectual property can determine the conditions placed on that permission and, within some limits, can change those conditions.

There are many things that are LEGAL or ILLEGAL based upon the policy of a company. For example, a company may build a private road on its own property. It may open that private road up to use by individuals. It may charge a toll for use, or it may allow for free use; or it might allow free use by some or not others. And it may make and change policies that render some uses legal and others illegal (trespassing, which can be a criminal offense).

This sort of thing happens all the time, especially as regards intellectual property.

And you know what?? It is ABSOLUTE B.S.!!! Practices like that should be banned and MADE illegal!! Either deal with everyone the same, or get out of the business. That would be like letting one singer sing three songs in a row and another only gets to sing once, and then saying, "Oh well, that is the policy of this company". That would be a disgusting display of favoritism. You wonder why they music business and the Karaoke industry are in such sorry shape.

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I am the ONLY SANE 1 HERE

think of it this way...

some neighbor kids come up and are hanging out in your driveway. they are good kids and not causing any problems and don;t look like they will either so you let them hang.
then later some neighbor kids come up and are hanging out in your driveway. they are the thug gangbangers, not causing any problems yet, but look like they are ready to so you kick them out.
same property, same rules, good kids not up to anything. first set are following those rules (that you never told them about) and the second set did not.

you need the owners permission to copy their stuff. what they ask for that permission is up to them. if you do it, you get that permission and the copy is legal because you followed the directions to get permission. if you do not, then you have not gotten permission and the copy is not legal. either way, for the copy to be legal, you need permission of the rights holder.
the reason it is so hard to swallow is that every other music entity on the planet is good with it (giving permission) without extra payments and the like. but the rules are the same, you just HAVE their permission because you bought it and that is their requirement.

is it right to do? i don't feel it is the right thing to do, but it is up to them. just like we have to deal with the consequences of not following the SC rules if we chose not to, THEY have to deal with the consequences of making that rule. my other two rigs do not and will not have SC. i stopped buying SC discs because of it. that is the consequence. the sales pool is down to certified hosts only and i don;t think i am the only one who is not adding SC to subsequent rigs or buying more in general.

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Paradigm Karaoke, The New Standard.......Shift Happens