Karaoke Forums

...AND, unless it is just for fun at somebody's basement or something, goes against most (if not all) states' child labor laws. If it is non-commercial, it has been suggested that strict compliance is not tantamount to a technical breach...

While I do not agree that using a digital copy of a disc you paid for is is an infringement at all, based on the case this thread is based on, it does not require use. Go check the lawsuit this thread was based upon. The final judgement was on 426 Cd's that were missing with more than 1/2 of those being on the "backup drive" that was NEVER used.

Since their case depends on trademark they had to prove the trademark was shown (and that was all they loosely did) without permission, but upon completion of the audit they were charged for every single track that was on all 3 drives without permission. (actually charged double, see earlier post).

I still can not believe that they actually accepted the only evidence of trademark display to be the plaintiff's word with no other supporting evidence at all. (Preponderance of evidence 1 to 0 wins every time.)

So to summarize they ordered damages on 12,780 tracks even though there was never proof that any of those were displayed and even though they only had 6390 tracks total.

Also, interested to know if the court ordered the audit and it appears SC was awarded no cost figures for that audit.

Athena you argument is like saying it is OK to keep a stolen car in your garage, as long as you do not use it. That is wrong. Obviously if never used you run much less risk of being caught, but that does not mean they are allowing you to do so as long as you do not use it.

I know, I promised to shut up and here I am wasting time again... back to work!

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Eric Godfrey
http://USKaraokeAlliance.com
http://StarzKaraoke.com
http://Karaoke2Night.com network

If the business is owned by his parents, it violates no rules.

It is not accurate to say that the "backup drive" was never used.



Your confusion is based upon your misreading of the law. Go back and read 15 U.S.C. § 1114(1) and § 1117, and you'll see that unauthorized display of the trademark is not the only actionable infringement.



This is not accurate at all. There were 14 documentary exhibits in addition to Kurt's testimony, as well as the defendants' own testimony elicited as part of our case-in-chief.



There was testimony and documentary evidence that indicated that the appropriate per-track figure for lost sales was $1.50, not $0.75, so you can stop flogging that misstatement.



The court did order the inspection in discovery, and our costs and attorney fees will be awarded separately.



Considering that the Trademark Act requires "use in commerce" to be actionable, I'd say that her argument was spot-on.

I will ask again, So, who is doing the audits for PR.LLC? Who is handling the permission to shift for Chartbuster??

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I am the ONLY SANE 1 HERE

My understanding was that the decision had not yet been made on that question. However, I have asked my contact at PR again and will let you know.

Thank you. I look forward to your answer.

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I am the ONLY SANE 1 HERE

"If the business is owned by his parents, it violates no rules." TommyA

That is correct...family owned businesses do have different rules. My Grandson has been running shows at afterschool programs, roller rinks,church events and parties since he was 6. He had even paid taxes for the last 2 years. He loves running shows, He has his own system built on small handtrucks so he can set up/tear down with little help. He has learned good work ethics, made money (1/2 profit is put in savings), made friends and made a name for himself. At nine he has a better understanding of how to run a business than many adults. If he ever wishes to stop running karaoke I will be behind that as well....he sure makes alot more money doing shows than he would pulling weeds or running a lemonade stand

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"Integrity is choosing your thoughts, words and actions based on your principles and values rather than for your personal gain."
Unknown
"if a man has integrity, nothing else matters, If a man has no integrity, nothing else matters."
Lee McGuffey

If you mean it violates no LAWS, then that might be the case I guess. Somehow I doubt the law actually says "family owned business" though...it seems like any business can "hire" anyone from their family if that were the case, including businesses with multiple owners, i.e. companies with shareholders which are in essence part owners of the business. Most cases I have seen similar this allowing minors to work (and those were at least in their mid-teens) were in situations where they showed extreme hardship in order to do so. Other than that, it seems this scenario would break a lot of RULES in most people's eyes...

You know what, though, it's not like he is working in a factory, or out in the fields. He is running Karaoke shows in church settings and for kids events. It's not like he's being exploited, and he seems to enjoy doing it. I am ALWAYS the first to say that kids are kids, and should be allowed to be kids. I think they get too much work at school now-a-days. My son had homework in Kindergarten, which i thought was ridiculous. But we are talking about running a karaoke show. It's something he enjoys. I don't care how seriously you take your business, we all know that we do this, at least in part, because it's fun. It's not some sloggy, grinding type of work. If he is enjoying it, let him, and stop jumping on Athena about it.

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I am the ONLY SANE 1 HERE

I am very good about not "jumping people"...commenting on things that come up on here is what a forum is all about (do I really have to say this?). My statements are very generalized, just for that purpose. If it applies, so be it...if not, in the words of the quintessential poet Jay-z, "On to the next, on to the next one..."

I started a new thread to prevent further hijacking of this one. See "lessons from a 9 year old KJ" lets get this one back on track

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"Integrity is choosing your thoughts, words and actions based on your principles and values rather than for your personal gain."
Unknown
"if a man has integrity, nothing else matters, If a man has no integrity, nothing else matters."
Lee McGuffey

Ever the moderator.

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I am the ONLY SANE 1 HERE

The answer is...contact DigiTrax and they will get you started on the audit/certification process.

No arguing, just taking out from the actual judgement:

As to evidence that was presented proving the trademark was displayed:

"Mr. Slep visited Green Glass on one occasion and witnessed the Sound Choice mark displayed during several karaoke performances. Tr. 29. No other witnesses testified about viewing the Sound Choice mark at any of the Defendants’ locations."

and

"As to the usage element, the only direct evidence in the record is Mr. Slep’s one visit to Green Glass where he viewed the Sound Choice mark being displayed. No other witnesses testified that they viewed the Sound Choice mark at Donovan’s or with Mr. Paynter. Circumstantial evidence exists that the corporate defendants possessed copies of the Sound Choice mark and displayed them."

As to the value of the tracks:

Plaintiff produces two types of products, Compact Discs plus graphics (“CD+G”) and MP3 plus graphics (“MP3+G”), which contain the karaoke songs. Tr. 20-21. Each song has a current retail value of seventy-five cents. In the past, each song had a retail value of $1.50, but Plaintiff lowered the price to compete with pirated copies. Tr. 60. Plaintiff sells its product only on disc and does not sell their product on computer hard drives. Tr. 20-21. However, many karaoke jockeys (“KJs”) and others have transferred the content of their compact discs to hard drive because of the ease by which songs can be played. Tr. 23. This process is called “media shifting.” Tr. 23.

As to the amount awarded:
"Plaintiff has sustained $9,585.00 in damages which represent the amount of lost revenue for a total of 426 discs at the wholesale price.." Now the word wholesale was not used prior in the judgement but the only 2 prices referred to was the old retail price and the new retail price... You would have to conclude when he says wholesale he met the lower price. In case you, Mr. Harrington are confused, wholesale is a lesser value than retail, leading to my conclusion, however as I stated earlier, the judge may have been confused as it seems no one made it clear how many songs were on each disc.

I have no confusion as I actually read every word of what the judge signed.

And once again, you were awarded monetary fees for lots of songs that were never displayed (aka "used")

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Eric Godfrey
http://USKaraokeAlliance.com
http://StarzKaraoke.com
http://Karaoke2Night.com network

. That question was more for everyone else. I have, but one lonely little CB disc. Yup. It's the Dave Matthews discs. For now it is certainly now worth getting it certified. But thank you.

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I am the ONLY SANE 1 HERE

don't wory smooth.....Digitrax does not own the Trademark. you have nothing to go to them for.

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Paradigm Karaoke, The New Standard.......Shift Happens

Lonman:you are correct the license does not cover karaoke. I should have been more clear because that wasn't my point.

The point I was trying to make is that for DJ music, what is REQUIRED isn't that much different from what Soundchoice requires in order to shift their karaoke tracks.


To flat out say that it isn't done at all is not true.



hope that clears things up a little
-james

They will get you to the appropriate place in the overall organization. PR does not presently have a website, so it can be difficult to find them directly.

Care to tell us exactly who "them" is?....

What's the big secret?

And from your post above, you make it sound as though Digitrax and P.R. is simply being run by a third entity....

And that would be????


(Just askin'...)