Karaoke Forums

I did not get an email .... Looks like I'll have to plead guilty of being an A$$. Isn't the first time and most surely will not be the last. My apologies

Here we go AGAIN! Woohoo! I'll have extra butter with my popcorn, please!

All of this for a pissant industry with pissant promise of income for time spent. One has to really like this pissant way of life to continue as a KJ even after having their legal hard drives and legal laptop stolen and I know who did it. Home Security Videos are a wonderful product!

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You can never argue with a crazy mi-mi-mi-mi-mi-mind ----B. Joel
I have great faith in fools; My friends call it self-confidence ---- E.A. Poe
I became insane, with long intervals of horrible sanity ----E.A. Poe
I don't know, I don't care, and it doesn't make any difference! ----A. Einstein
Double bubble, toil and trouble ----W. Shakespeare & Walt Disney
I hate it when I get on FaceBook ----Me
Karaoke might be Groundhog Day ----?
Of All the Martial Arts, Karaoke Inflicts the Most Pain ----?

I'm sure if you really thought about any job at great length, unless you really loved it, it would still be just a job. A means to earn a living. Many people go through life doing jobs they hate, that still need to be done. I'm sure the immigrant farm laborers would rather do something else, but they have to live, so do their families. Life isn't easy. Having said that I'm sure there is more than one host if they had to do it over again, they would do something else. The industry has changed so much in the last 20 plus years due to technology, there are so many things that have happened, that couldn't have been anticipated.

P.S. One thing I'm confused about is if you are legal, and your property was stolen, and you have proof on video, why didn't you call the cops, and show them your evidence? It would seem an open and shut case, not to mention if these were legally purchased items, the amount would make it felony grand theft? So why didn't you go after the thief?

It could be much more fun serving revenge after it gets cold. Plus making them sweat it out is quite worth it! The cops did come out. The video appears unusable to them but I can tell and that is all that matters. The laptop will be used for parts only I'm sure. Pawn brokers will not see any of it. Peripheral Hard drives will be resold.

_________________
You can never argue with a crazy mi-mi-mi-mi-mi-mind ----B. Joel
I have great faith in fools; My friends call it self-confidence ---- E.A. Poe
I became insane, with long intervals of horrible sanity ----E.A. Poe
I don't know, I don't care, and it doesn't make any difference! ----A. Einstein
Double bubble, toil and trouble ----W. Shakespeare & Walt Disney
I hate it when I get on FaceBook ----Me
Karaoke might be Groundhog Day ----?
Of All the Martial Arts, Karaoke Inflicts the Most Pain ----?

This seems odd and sounds like a shakedown by the seller. Going after home users doesn't seem like a great plan.
Very very few of my participants give a crap where the song they sing comes from and they certainly don't want to hear I don't have x or y song because it's soundchoice only (zep, dio, rainbow etc). The idea that I have to BUY a track seems insane to them when they can pull tracks off youtube. This is an argument I deal with every night as I am surrounded by youtube kj's.
If the guy bought the drive, legal or not, I would think the seller is responsible and should be arrested if they are selling it as a product.
Unless the guy who bought the drive distributes it or uses it in public, I don't see an easy path for legal action against him.

Now on the other hand: I could see a crafty scammer, selling drives under one name, then setting up fake legal notices or even
working with a real lawyer to prosecute the buyers. Unfortunately this is entrapment and has serious legal implications. I have seen
this type of scam before with the handicap laws. Places were successfully sued (Florida) without the plaintiff actually visiting them
until they sued an unmarked Walgreens. The security cameras went back 1 year and it was proven the plaintiff never entered the property. The Plantiff and the whole legal team went to federal prison.

Perhaps Bastiat might be able to confirm this legal team is working in his interest or sue the crap out of them if they are not.

EDIT: Sorry I got to this party late. a number of people I have come across have bought loaded hard drives for home use and
do not take them out nor have any interest in becoming a KJ. They often buy them to practice.
That said, why bother buying a drive when almost everything is on youtube? Why won't somebody go after youtube for at least the branded tracks?????????????????!!!!!!!!!!!!!
While I'm at it, why didn't SONY, that really really big bad wolf not go after youtube after nailing the karaoke manus?
Perhaps all this social media stuff is too full of legal loopholes to effectively prosecute without loss. It's made people
think everything on the net is free!!

Exactly how do I register my Stellar disks by the way, or do I have to wait for a legal notice?
Any other brands up for registration requirements in the near future?

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Purple Frog Karaoke Cuz we all feel odd and love to "croak"

Don't know what you mean by a "shakedown" but I have no interest in shaking anybody down. In the first place it's not possible to determine whether a buyer is a home user, a KJ, a reseller or any combination of all three based on sales records. Some have claimed that they were just "home users" only to later discover that they were KJs and in at least one case so far an actual reseller. As far as there being an easy path for legal action against a private use buyer, there isn't an easy legal path toward buyers or sellers. There are lots of things that have to be done in preparation of filing suit against anyone. That being said, it seems to be the common belief that private use is some sort of safe haven from a lawsuit. Unfortunately the folks that believe that eventually learn the hard way that they were grossly misinformed. The best case scenario is when a buyer contacts a qualified IP attorney who understands IP law. In those cases the issue gets resolved rather quickly. Unfortunately those cases are far and few between and more often than not the buyer enlists the services of their family lawyer who is usually a general practitioner or real estate lawyer etc., and knows very little about intellectual property law. This ends up being even more costly as at that point my attorney fees go up and any settlement must be adjusted accordingly.

As far as the YouTube matter, I'm aware that much if not all of the Stellar library is available on YouTube. However these titles were not uploaded to YouTube by Stellar or any of its affiliates and therefore any of these titles that appear on YouTube were uploaded without the consent of the publisher(s) of the original compositions and therefore should be considered to be unauthorized. It's actually a bit more complicated than that but for all intents and purposes, if you see a Stellar product being displayed on YouTube in its entirety, meaning the audio and the CD+G graphics, it's probably unauthorized.

Stellar Records has not now, nor has it ever had, nor will it ever have a registration program or auditing program. If you have the original discs then there's no need to concern yourself with registration. It is a good idea however as a matter of legal practicality to hold onto the originals even if they're no longer useable and you must work from a copy or a digitized version as that would constitute proof of ownership should that ever come into question.

But you did have your CAP program for $3,000.

So what does that have to do with the price of milk?

That was like a 1 time, HELP fee.

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I am the ONLY SANE 1 HERE

That was like a 1 time, HELP fee.

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I am the ONLY SANE 1 HERE

Maybe I should have quoted your next sentence too....



You said that you NEVER had a Registration program. If so, then what was/is that? I'm not trying to knock you for attempting to recoup some of your losses, but don't go saying you never had any type of registration program to us here, when you did.

Chris Avis had trouble with that CAP Program of Stellar's and even had a blog about it.

Seems that when some people enter into the Litigation Process on a scale of discovery toward others they develop a convenient lapse of memory concerning themselves.

_________________
You can never argue with a crazy mi-mi-mi-mi-mi-mind ----B. Joel
I have great faith in fools; My friends call it self-confidence ---- E.A. Poe
I became insane, with long intervals of horrible sanity ----E.A. Poe
I don't know, I don't care, and it doesn't make any difference! ----A. Einstein
Double bubble, toil and trouble ----W. Shakespeare & Walt Disney
I hate it when I get on FaceBook ----Me
Karaoke might be Groundhog Day ----?
Of All the Martial Arts, Karaoke Inflicts the Most Pain ----?

My how things have changed, now it is an insult just to make a comparison of PEP's actions? I guess that is why Jim Harrington no longer comes on this forum. His stock has fallen so much that to be put in the same class as PEP is an insult. I can remember when most hosts thought it was great that SC was trying to recover money from violators. It always sounds great about the recovery process, of course until you personally have to deal with it. As far a comparisons go only CB and SC made attempts early on to use legal means to recover monies, they felt were owed them. CB went under early and SC managed to manipulate the situation and get the so called right to sue for that label as well.

The above posts are they insults as well, calling the CAP program similar/comparing it to HELP a PEP program?

CAP was NOT a registration program. It was a settlement agreement and covenant not to sue for ADMITTED infringers, period, end of story. Please don't try to twist or conflate this with a registration program whereby innocent or even just suspected folks were made to register Stellar products they had already legitimately purchased. Stellar never falsely accused ANYONE of ever infringing on its products, nor did we ever conduct audits or other forms of "fishing" expeditions. Where I come from you're innocent until proven guilty and I live by that axiom. This is not a criticism of those who conducted such programs, it's just that as a matter of conscience (something that seems to be in short supply here), Stellar chose not to go that route and it's disingenuous of you to conflate the CAP program with a registration program when it never even loosely resembled anything like that. I really don't appreciate you calling me a liar or falsely questioning my integrity.

I seem to recall there being some sort of an issue with Chris, but it wasn't anything substantive. I seem to recall it having something to do with a matter of the paperwork being delayed or incorrect on our end or something like that but it was not a case whereby he was either falsely accused or was being unjustly penalized in any way. Furthermore, had there been any mistakes made on our end they would have been corrected. So if you want to call a meager recollection of some minor administrative detail a "convenient lapse of memory" be my guest, but unless you have something of a more substantive nature, or something that was of a material consequence then it would appear to me at least that you're just being petty.

CAP was NOT a registration program. It was a settlement agreement and covenant not to sue for ADMITTED infringers, period, end of story.[quote]

If Chris had to pay $3,000 to receive a CNS then would you not have to register him somehow, someway, somewere, even if in your mind, as an individual never to bring to litigation?

At the least, he would be tagged/registered as a Party to a Settlement Agreement.

I am curious about whether the payment gave him the right to 'use of all Stellar tracks' regardless of manner of procurement. I am not meaning for this to become a can of worms. I just believe wholeheartedly that you are incorrect in your statement and apparently I am not alone.

To my way of thinking HELP is an insult to those 'holding fast' to the 'fair' way of conducting business in regards to that Manu. That is unless they are making positive that nothing under 192kbs is being used, which to my understanding they have not.

Since they have been turned away lately in Fed Courts I believe they have given up because they already have enough monies secured through other legal agreements with Hosts that they are considering producing again. Consequently there have been no lawsuits filed in 2018.

Spank me, I can't believe I am getting this involved again in what is turning into such a pissant industry, heh.

_________________
You can never argue with a crazy mi-mi-mi-mi-mi-mind ----B. Joel
I have great faith in fools; My friends call it self-confidence ---- E.A. Poe
I became insane, with long intervals of horrible sanity ----E.A. Poe
I don't know, I don't care, and it doesn't make any difference! ----A. Einstein
Double bubble, toil and trouble ----W. Shakespeare & Walt Disney
I hate it when I get on FaceBook ----Me
Karaoke might be Groundhog Day ----?
Of All the Martial Arts, Karaoke Inflicts the Most Pain ----?

CAP was a way for someone who bought a loaded hard drive as Chris did in the beginning not knowing what he knows now, to make it right and pay for what he had.
one time payment to make it right, nothing more.

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Paradigm Karaoke, The New Standard.......Shift Happens

So the fee that Chris Avis paid was a "settlement agreement" for him as "an ADMITTED infringer?"

So rather than just agree to a monetary settlement for infringement of your products and an injunction not to continue to infringe, the settlement money also included a covenant not to sue so that he could continue to use your entire library and infringe on publishers, writers and artists? In the meantime, he received your entire library for a tiny fraction of the retail price that the rest of us paid.

Seriously, how is this any different than a HELP license? What makes it different?

I truly don't see the difference. He bought a loaded hard drive, paid you a "settlement" and for that fee, you agreed not to sue him (far less than purchasing the entire library on disc for each of his multiple systems).

If it walks like duck....

The issue at hand here was whether or not CAP was a registration program which it was not. Nevertheless to address your concerns, essentially CAP was a monetary settlement for infringing on Stellar products. CAP was a monetary settlement not a sale of its products or a license to use them. There was no exchange for products, or a license to use existing products. The CAP program did not allow for future infringement of our catalog nor was it merely $3000 across the board as was previously implied. Some settlements were as much as $20,000 or more depending on the circumstances.

I don't know what a HELP license is nor do I care and I'm not trying to be coy here, but I really don't know and I really don't care to know. What I can tell you however is that if it is a license in the truest sense of the word then by definition alone it's different. I'm sure you're smart enough to know the distinction between a license and a settlement but if you need me to explain it to you I'd be more than happy to do so.