Karaoke Forums

Joe, I didn't see you as one of the hecklers. Maybe I'm reading a different thread, but I see post after post excoriating SC, implying that they encourage piracy to support their business model, etc. It wasn't just one or two posts complaining about the deadline, either.

I'll apologize for overstepping my newbie bounds. I can understand the frustration with the failed renewals of karaoke, but I doubt if the companies that failed were happy about it, either. They're failing because they're trying to do something that's either very difficult or impossible.

It looks to me as if karaoke is being destroyed by thieves, and it can't be stopped. Publishers can be a pain (I deal with the PROs), but they're not the problem--if not for the piracy, there'd be money to pay them. The reason it's hard to find new tracks is that it's impossible to protect them from piracy.

Sound Choice is getting a lot of flak because they did a great job to start out with (most of my regulars will ask for an SC track on duplicate selections). They have no more obligation to make new karaoke tracks than you or I do. They're not doing it, for the very same reason that you and I aren't--there's no way to make money at it. Karaoke's going down the drain, and it seems infantile to heckle the people who try to fix it because they aren't doing it perfectly.

I think the consensus seems to be that due to the current environment, there is very little to do other than pick at a few things. Maybe a good lesson to be learned from it all is that the old way of doing things, which is no longer profitable, has to be improved upon, and in order to rebuild a broken system, you have to increase the positive side of things like integrity and timeliness...

Cafe, it may be a gokd idea to catch up on the SC threads. They get flak for screwing their customers, frivolous IP trolling lawsuits, lack of credibility, disingenuous statements, and for causing so much grief to the industry and overstepping their bounds that they awoke the sleeping giants (publishers / owners) who are now wreaking even more havok in the music supply chain.

I am a major heckler of SC, just not in regard to this thread.

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"No Contests, No Divas, Just A Good Time!"

" Disc based and loving it..."

What you'll also find is that most of the "flak" is completely unwarranted and unsubstantiated.

(What you'll also find is that most of the "flak" is completely unwarranted and unsubstantiated.)

that's your opinion

The answer seems obvious to me.

There's an impressive amount of expertise on this forum. I'm talking about expertise in sound engineering, in how a karaoke show really works, the logistics of acquiring and accessing material, the wishes and preferences of karaoke end users, requirements of getting work in good venues, formats going back to LaserDiscs and tapes, and expertise on the economics, politics, and legalities of karaoke. We even have people with strong ideas about stopping illegal HD sales.

Why can't a consortium of folks from this very forum with complementary talents, knowledge and skills simply make and sell new karaoke tracks, the same way SC would? Recording's pretty cheap these days.

I've never thought that asking "Why won't this person do something that I also won't do?" was a very valid criticism.

Had a singer at one of my shows say pretty much the same thing not long ago, because he wanted to do a song no one ever made and he just couldn't BELIEVE it might be difficult or expensive.

Recording may be cheap, but as far as producing and LEGALLY selling karaoke tracks (with lyrics displayed) it is so much more expensive and complicated, it's become almost impossible to do it in the US. I'm sure all the necessary licensing and permissions could indeed be had for any song, but at a price that would necessitate selling those tracks at something so ridiculous no one would pay for them. And unless some new kick-ass totally invulnerable copy protection system was devised, only ONE copy of each would get sold before the pirates ran away with it.

Yes piracy is a HUGE reason for the decline in the industry, but the copy right holders of the music, have taken a desperate situation and made it 100 times worse.

Do you know why karaoke tracks are considered an audio visual product? It's all because of that one infamous case yes, but to the best of my knowledge, the reason the case was decided that way was because of the DKK and Pioneer brands. DKK used actual pictures in their karaoke brands, and pioneer had full blown videos *which they acually did pay full licensing for. In my opinion, if it wasn't for that karaoke would still be considered a musical product *in my opinion anyway* and only two main licesnes would be requried. One for the compulsary/music and one for a lyric reprint. None of this needing six or more licenses BS that the US and Canada have to put up with.

The copyrights holders have gotten so greedy and paranoid that they have choked off the supply of music to people who want to legitimately produce karaoke music.

Case in point... when KaraokeMaker a Canadian karaoke producer, went back to the copyright holders to do a second reprint of their TROOPER disc, the copyright holder TRIPLED the price they wanted for the sync rights. Why? because they could. That is why I have seen people offering up to $250 for the trooper disc, because it only went thru one pressing and is much harder to find than any of those other discs produced..

IF the copyright holders made it easier and cheaper to produce karaoke music here, then it would REDUCE the amount of piracy *notice i said reduce not eliminate* and then they would actually start making a bit of money in the process.

I'll bet that's why Sound Choice doesn't make new tracks.

No bet needed, that pretty much IS why.

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LIKE Lonman on Facebook - Lonman Productions Karaoke & my main site via my profile!

yes, that is the main reason. According to Mr. Harrington, they did try to release new tracks, but the publishers tried to change the agreement after it had been signed by both parties.

Well, yes.

There seems to be a fair amount of hair-tearing and teeth-gnashing over SC's choice to make money pursuing their existing IP rights rather than producing new material, but as nearly as I can make out they don't make new material for the same reason I don't make it.

Sure the cost of doing it is a factor, however once it's made and out on the pirate market that same day - what's the point?
If they would go to a download format (for kj's too), people would be less likely to steal the track over paying $1-3 per track.

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Fair point, but my competition with 100K tracks probably wouldn't even pay 25 cents or a dime.

If creating tracks and making them for download is a good idea, there's nothing stopping the rest of us from doing it that I can see.

I quit worrying about those around me touting 100K tracks. I am only up to 16K individual song titles and growing. I still get new songs for singers. Those with 100K tracks rarely get new tracks plus their libraries often consist of half foreign songs that will never get used and probably a high duplication rate between all the different manus. I often get told I have more songs people actually want to sing than those that have 100K or more. Don't get caught up in the 100K competition, just get what your singers ask for if possible and chances are you will get their following.

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Though they never admit it, their catalogue has been available for download on several occasions. The first was so long ago that it is my belief that this is where the original pirate SC (and other brand) drives were sourced.

I don't believe anyone sat and ripped all of those discs because it would have taken way too much time back then. The fact that downloads are pre-converted and are kept in a public and easily accessible place - cyberspace - is, in my opinion, the REASON piracy exploded when compared to disc piracy of old.

Free access to the tracks that can be loaded onto equipment found in virtually every household without additional purchase.

Nope, downloads won't be what will cut down piracy......

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"No Contests, No Divas, Just A Good Time!"

" Disc based and loving it..."

Why do you think they did the downloads?
Ripping back when?
I was ripping discs in "real time" for my backups in 96 before mp3g was even out. Sure it took time about an hour plus per disc, but that is what you did if you wanted back ups. Goldenhawk CDRWin program & a Plextor drive. Rip to bin file, then back to cdr for a working cdg backup. Saving the bin file on hard drive (it was a little more expensive to do back then but worth it for those using back up discs at the time since you didn't have to rip again in case something happened to your backup) which could be easily converted to mp3g when it became available a couple years later if desired.
I remember on the JOLT forum many other kj's using the same process for their disc backups - so yes kj's DID take the time to rip their discs, most in real time as well. It took me several months to get through my initial few hundred discs, after that it was done with each disc buy.

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Joe i SERIOUSLY doubt that the original pirated files came from anything that soundchoice had to offer. Why? Because I used to frequent the mirc channels. At one point, I had almost the entire soundchoice libary on my hard drive, which I later deleted when I became a host and found out what piracy was doing to this industry.

90% of the rips I download had absolutely TERRIBLE graphics.. Some to the point of being COMPLETELY unreadable. There is absolutely no way they could have come from an original source.

Do you know what the easiest way to tell if someone has a pirated copy of soundchoice's eagles disc? Yup, you guessed, take a look at the graphic output. ALL the shows i have been to that have those songs have the EXACT same graphic glitches.

-James

James, to clarify:

DECENT QUALITY tracks were those created by the companies themselves, then offered for download where they were hacked.

Do you seriously think that the massive piracy explosion that happened when producers started offering downloads was a coincidence?

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"No Contests, No Divas, Just A Good Time!"

" Disc based and loving it..."

But if you look at much of the pirated hd's, they all have the same unquality rips. Like Bazza stated, how can you tell a pirated HD from show to show - look at 1 track you know has a graphic glitch, if you see it at the next show - there you go. Seriously doubt it was from the manus themselves. Most of the hard drives out there are from burns/rips and often at crap rip quality 192 or less.

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