Karaoke Forums

i know Joe.....

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Paradigm Karaoke, The New Standard.......Shift Happens

Yeah, but I know Jack!

but Bo don't know Diddly

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Paradigm Karaoke, The New Standard.......Shift Happens

I realize the retail option only applies if they haven't had to investigate and bring charges against the alleged pirate. Buying retail is better deal though than the old time host had to pay, and in addition to those costs, the legal host has to pay for an audit and go through certification process. To me this is a lot of time and money wasted for a product I no longer use. If the pirate pays the 7500.00 that is still cheaper than if SC throws the book at them, so they get a deal no matter what. If they are in the business for the long haul they are still competing with the legal hosts, but then again by the new definitions I guess they would be legal also.

we agree there, i would love for SC and CB to throw the book at them. they are pirates, they stole tons of music, they deserve to get hit hard. as far as the price being higher than the old time hosts had to pay, it is just how things go. it gets cheaper. if we really wanted to get into it, i bet the hosts that paid $150.00 for each Pioneer laser disc way back when could say the same about us buying a $20.00 CD+G.

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Paradigm Karaoke, The New Standard.......Shift Happens

Isn't that the whole point that everything in this business, is in a state of constant change? The problem is when the changes come faster than the host can adapt to them. It will truly be survival of the fittest in this type of environment. That is why I'm glad in a way I will see the back of all this in the next 5-7 years. Some of the changes I see coming will make the trade a lot less appealing to me.

That will never happen... there's no money in it.

Hit too hard with punitive damages and the pirate will simply shut down - no chance of selling them anything and SC has lost a potential customer. Remember that this has nothing to do with current hosts - they are only focusing only on making pirates "customers" so the costs for this court battle must still be affordable. If a pirate goes out of business, SC gets nothing, Harrington gets nothing... They are not shutting down pirates for your health and well being, they want to be paid and the only way that will happen is to make it affordable and finance it.



Probably.

The pirates are already doing shows so what's the point? If SC wants to make them customers then so be it. They buy the gem series and get financed. Whoopty-doo! All of their illegal music is deleted off their hard drives and they hit the street with 4500 or so songs. They then have to start purchasing music legally or lose the gem set. They get audited every year and the playing field is leveled. I don't see the problem.

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Sound Choice and Chartbuster Certified

The problem is the legal process for all of this will take more years than you or I will probably be alive. So far they have served what hundreds at most hosts and venues. There is an estimated 500,000+ illegal hosts in the U.S. alone. The post from HarringtonLaw indicates, because no criminal charges are filed only civil damages sought, no legal precedent will be established. All of these civil suits will be tried on their own particular circumstances, and cannot be applied universally over the whole American legal system. There is no cookie cutter approach that can be applied to speed up this process. That is why SC is hoping that they can get enough hosts to buy the retail 3780.00 package with the excellent financing arrangements, so they won't have to spend the time and money to hunt each pirate down. Once they are signed up then they can keep milking the cow every year with audits etc.etc.etc. All the while never having to make any new product at all. I hope now you understand why I refuse to use their product, why should I support this approach, which in my opinion will hurt the industry more than help it. I still think a simple license approach will recover more money for the manus in the long run and do less harm to the industry as a whole. This all might be a mood point any way if the economy continues to tank and we enter a double dip recession.

I still don't understand how you think this will help the industry?
All this will do is legalize piracy. What manu in their right mind would approve of such a license and continue to make new product. What's their incentive to create new product if they say its ok to steal it since you pay your $500/year?

I'd be more inclined to be on board with a KJ license if it required proof of purchase of original manu media.

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My statements, opinions and conclusions are based on my own personal experiences, observations, research and/or just my own $.02. I'm not a "cheerleader", but that doesn't make me a Pirate.

Don't the manus in a way say it is ok to at least compete with legal hosts as long as you pay us. Then again the legal host must pay every trademark that pushes their rights, for being allowed to use their product. The piracy is so far reaching, and the solution nearly unworkable, unless by magic all the pirates voluntarily submit. Yeah, like that is really going to happen. The whole point is everyone will be paying in at once, and more money will be raised than in this piecemeal approach. It will do less damage to the industry as a whole. You are right on one point new product unless it can be made tamper proof will be a thing of the past. The manu that can develop a process than can achieve security will own the future market. In Sound Choice's case it would seem quite clear that they have abandoned all interest in creating new product.

If they're not paying for product now why would they pay a $500 license fee?

Whether its buying a product, paying for an audit or license...if it costs money there will always be those who try to skate around it.

Even if something was in place that required a venue to only hire a licensed KJ there will still be those who won't. There are venues who don't pay their appropriate ASCAP, BMI, etc... fees. Those venues are probably not worried about hiring a licensed KJ either.

The only benefit of a license I see (read: for legit hosts), would be for the KJ to avoid multiple fees, audits, etc... at whatever rate and frequency each manu decides is appropriate and maybe be able to avoid the hassle of being named in a lawsuit.

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My statements, opinions and conclusions are based on my own personal experiences, observations, research and/or just my own $.02. I'm not a "cheerleader", but that doesn't make me a Pirate.

I think that there is a core of illegals out there, who would use the chance to buy the license. At least if some bought in it would make it easier to deal with the few that stay outside the law. True if there are venues that engage in illegal activities, they will not shrink at hiring pirates. Most bar owners have a considerable investment in their business, and if you could check a host out by a simple license, I think most owners would. The thing they are not going to to is sit down and check all your discs against your song book, that would take up to much valuable time. You are right again that it would be easier and less costly to buy the license for the average host. The vast majority of the hosts and the venues want to be able to run their operations, without interference from professional legal litigants, whose only interest is to use the threat of legal action, to obtain compensation. I also feel that the vast majority of the hosts would like a quick solution to this whole problem, before it takes the whole industry down. This license would be like a hunting or fishing license. Just because you have one doesn't mean you have the skills to get your deer or marlin.

More hearsay.

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"Just Say NO, To Justin Bieber & His Beatle Haircut"

If it is all hearsay, where is the new product, where is the the beef and don't say between Wendy's buns! I've heard that old joke.

Blanket licensing is not a free pass to steal. If people are going to steal they will do it REGARDLESS of anything you or I can say or do. If someone wants something badly enough, they will find a way to get it, consequences be damned.

All it does is give the host permission to copy their content to a computer and covers everyone INCLUDING the original IP holders which NO ONE producing karaoke in North America can give permission for. Holding a license means that you would be agreeing to ENFORCEABLE conditions including having to run a 100% legal *ie paid for* library. Pirates couldnt hide under the current reasoning of a manufacture not being able to sue because they dont have control over the brands that are now dead.

Plus i am not 100% certain but I think even with the Produb license in the UK u still have to get the manufactuers permission. I may check on that if I have time.

It would also make pirates easier to catch as the people responsible would have the right to check libraries whenever they wanted. Those that refuse to pay the license would not have a legitimate excuse if someone were to show up at there venue to check on them.

so piracy is not a problem in the U.K. with the pro-dub license? somehow i doubt that. if they did not pay for it to begin with, why would they to pay for a license? and considering that all the legal entities in the U.S. who could have the authority to monitor and enforce the laws (that are already being broken) have already said they don't care about karaoke and will not help enforce the rules, who will follow up?

the ones stealing, wont pay so there is no $500.00 per person coming in, and there is no one to enforce the payment of that money anyway. so now what Ranger?

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Paradigm Karaoke, The New Standard.......Shift Happens

In Canada the most likely candidate to enforce blanket licensing would be the AVLA because they're already doing it for DJs. And it works just fine. It would cost next to nothing to add karaoke hosts to the mix. I don't know why the music companies won't agree to it, it may not be as big a market, but we are still talking potentially about hundreds of thousands of dollars.

As for the US i don't know if there is an equivalent there.

Licensing is NOT a solution for piracy tho. Anyone who thinks it is is DELUDING themselves. Its just as big a problem in the UK as it is here. The difference is, at least they have a system in place to persue the pirates if they want to go to court and they don't have to incure as many costs for investigations *all done by the MCPS i think*

-James

Which would be better than to let each manu have it's own enforcement system, and at least would bring a sense of fairness and justice which seems to be lacking in the current market place.

100% agreed....however all the authorities have said the will not do it. suggestion?.....

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Paradigm Karaoke, The New Standard.......Shift Happens