Karaoke Forums

Yeah, you have proven that you know A LOT about spreading speculation & hearsay for sure!

viewtopic.php?f=26&t=21497&p=299426#p299426

_________________
"Just Say NO, To Justin Bieber & His Beatle Haircut"

Let's remember who's "spreading" this now....it's you.

(Now that's insane!)

...and also has enough sense to limit business liability by using original mfrs.' discs?

As opposed to a guy would WOULD use SC product that is only possibly licensed in the UK, and not in the U.S.? Who pays licensing fees to said mfr. anyway? Who then copies it to a PC and hopes said mfr. leaves him alone?

Yup, I'll take using Supercore discs anytime...

_________________
"No Contests, No Divas, Just A Good Time!"

" Disc based and loving it..."

We will probably never see eye to eye on this one Joe.
i don't understand.....SC licensed the discs through MCPS, who paid the publishers and song writers, like Moonrider, the money they desirve and that is bad because they did not get U.S. licenses for it, but Supercore who told the publishers and song writers like Moonrider to shove it sideways up their azz and paid nothing to anyone, THAT is ok to use?

And as far as the last posts we had, i understand what you are saying about using the disc as opposed to using the PC copy. what i don't see is where you got the info that the manus lose liability of it once it gets transfered to computer. "Because Joe Charteuse said so" is as far as it has gotten, but you got that information somewhere to make the business decision you did, let me see what you saw, i am not opposed to changing my business model with new information, but as i am sure you would understand, i would prefer to base it on more than one guys say so. I was just asking to be able to base my decision on the same information you saw. you have given me no reason to think you a liar, in fact i believe that is the farthest from the truth for you, but i even double check my own parents information. trust but verify.

_________________
Paradigm Karaoke, The New Standard.......Shift Happens

Paradigm, you have my full respect at all times, and I never took any post from you personally. I have, however, added Wall to the Thunder section on "ignore".

Since it's you, I will post it again. What has been happening is that there has been a misunderstanding constantly perpetuated by Wall for baiting purposes.

1) I don't say, nor have I ever said, that Supercore is any less "bad" or "better" than SC in regard to licensing. That's Wall twisting the issue. I have stated that as far as licensing in the U.S. - per Kurt's own statements on the forums- that they are on EQUAL footing. In other words, SC is in the same boat as SuperCore, or All Hits, or Dangerous, if they have no more U.S. licensing than they do.

My only gripe with SC's lack of U.S. licensing is their GALL in demanding licensing fees for said non- U.S. licensed product. It's ridiculous!

I DO say that by running these manufacturers' original discs, I deflect any monetary liability back to the manufacturer.

I say this because in essence, Moonrider is absolutely correct. If the OWNERS of the music were to get involved they would in liklihood find all hosts to be pirates in their eyes- as MOST of the mfrs. in any KJs collection have run into licensing difficulties.

However, I never claimed sainthood- I'm running a business. Until the OWNERS tell me to cease and desist, I will continue to do so and limit my liability to the best of my ability

2) This is more difficult to explain, and when I did so, it was a lot for a 2 finger typist, so this time I'll keep it light.

MP3 discs copied to PC: While I have conceded that this may still be a gray area, the manufacturers have not. They use "Trademark Infringement" as a hook, and claim that any PC host who has it displayed from their computer is showing a counterfeit copy. They may agree not to sue if the KJ has all the discs, but the fact remains that THEY consider it a counterfeit COPY, because it's not the original. I may or may not agree with this, but if one were to carry it to it's logical conclusion, this would mean that the CONTENT is not the original either. If that's the case, then that would mean they are no longer liable for it- it's your counterfeit copy.

I don't necessarily see it that way. However, I DO know that each copy of an original is slightly different than the original ( varying skills of different people running the PC, different software, varying levels of PC quality, etc, etc.) - and therefore can't BE the original.

Also, if you are ripping CDGs to MP3s you are deleteing audio data. There's no question that THAT is no longer the original. Which brings me to:

Downloads: Adding to all of the variables from the consumer end above we have AT LEAST two transmissions of data, upload and download. There is ALWAYS some loss or detriment in transmissions whether noticeable or not. I mean, some folks still download via dial up too!

All changes made at the mfrs. ( such as media shift) are still the manufactures', but any changes afterward ( and there always are) make the download the property of the end user.

Add to that more producer stuff, which I may or may not agree with. They speak of the neccesity of owning the "Original FIXED Media". Downloads are not fixed media. They are a transmitted data stream ( with all the pitfalls of the above) copy of a media shifted original.

No karaoke track producer can, or would want to guarantee that what ends up in your PC is an exact duplicate of the original. How could they ever know? In some way or another, through the entire process, there has been SOME alteration. This is what would give them the legal out in court, per my IP guys. The producers have no liability for download content. It simply physically is not the original. They RETAIN the original. They don't make a new one for each download.

Could my IP guys be wrong after 30 years with me in the engineering design biz? Sure, another law team could argue differently, but I trust the folks I know. They win a lot.

Now, you have asked for a link of some sort. Any good math teacher will tell you that you can't prove a negative, but CAN prove a positive.

Try getting ANY download mfr. to document and send to you a statement saying unequivocally that their tracks are specifically licensed from the music owners for use in a U.S. based karaoke show.

They should, without much cost or effort, and just like a receipt of payment, be able to do so with each track.

But they won't.

Until that happens, my negative stands.

_________________
"No Contests, No Divas, Just A Good Time!"

" Disc based and loving it..."

There is no need to ask Joe to show you, because he can't! He has stated several time that "Kurt said" that SC does not have U.S. licensing (and I am sure without ever looking at his post he will say so again) but he will never show that to you, again because he can't.

On the other hand I said that "Kurt said" that SC product is licensed for use in the U.S. and I have shown you!

But then again remember Thunder that Joe knows everything.

_________________
"Just Say NO, To Justin Bieber & His Beatle Haircut"

I don't remember Thunder showing anything and even I'd like to see that.... Especially since Thunder never "shows" anything to substantiate what he says....

Wall Of Sound: Please repost what Thunder has "shown"....

Chip, since you quoted Thunder, I can see his post. Please allow me:

One must be careful when reading what Thunder writes. "Kurt said that SC product is licensed for use in the U.S." is, in my opinion, a DELIBERATELY incomplete statement by Thunder for baiting purposes. Let me explain:

Assuming that SC was licensed in the UK, and legally sold the product manufactured there by MediaPlas in the U.S., then
like UK downloads, they are perfectly legal to use in the U.S.- but ONLY FOR HOME USERS.. Kurt would not say otherwise- not good business.

I have my difficulties with Kurt, but I do not believe for one nanosecond that he told Thunder that these tracks were legal for use in a U.S. based show- period.

Also, although they WANT you to do it, none of the mfrs. will tell you that they can legally authorize copying their product to your PC for show use. They WILL say that THEY won't bug you if you do things their way, but that's it.

_________________
"No Contests, No Divas, Just A Good Time!"

" Disc based and loving it..."