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jdmeister
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Posted: Wed Jul 11, 2012 7:22 am |
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Joined: Sun Mar 24, 2002 4:12 pm Posts: 7708 Songs: 1 Location: Hollyweird, Ca. Been Liked: 1090 times
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Quote: LOUISVILLE, Ky. (AP) — It's a common tactic for pornography producers trying to protect their product from online piracy: They sue unknown "John Does" who illegally download movies, then go to Internet providers to learn their true identities and collect.
Hundreds of porn companies have filed thousands of lawsuits across the country in recent years. Often, representatives will call up the defendants, offering quick settlements of $1,000 or $5,000 to avoid facing $150,000 claims and the embarrassment of being publicly outed.
Some defendants in the lawsuits are pushing back, arguing that they're being squeezed for quick settlements even when they claim to have never downloaded anything.
A Kentucky woman, Jennifer Barker, is suing the five companies that targeted her and is seeking class-action status to hold the companies accountable for harassing calls for settlements.
The five companies, out of California and London, have filed more than 500 lawsuits in 17 states against John and Jane Does in recent years.
Barker's attorney, Ken Henry of Louisville, who filed the lawsuit, estimated 500,000 people have been sued or gotten calls from representatives of the companies since 2007.
"Nobody wants their name associated with downloading porn ... " Henry said, giving the example of a typically graphic movie title.
Among those being sued were 57-year-old Josip Gotvald, a Croatian immigrant living in Tempe, Ariz. When Gotvald received a notice that he defaulted and lost a copyright lawsuit, he didn't know what it meant and hadn't ever heard of the company suing him, Raw Films, or the film he was accused of downloading, "Raw Rescue."
"I have never used a computer, much less used one to download a movie," Gotvald wrote in an affidavit.
Henry and other critics call the lawsuits "copyright trolls," a tactic used to extract quick cash settlements from people who have no connection to any downloaded movie but want to avoid having their names associated with porn.
Two of the companies, K-Beech, Inc., and Third Degree Films, both of Chatsworth, Calif., did not return repeated emails seeking comment. Contact information for the other three companies named in Barker's suit — Patrick Collins, Inc., of Canoga Park, Calif., Malibu Media of Malibu, Calif., and Raw Films of London — could not be located.
Marc Randazza, a Las Vegas-based attorney, has represented adult film companies in protecting their copyright from online downloaders. The filmmakers are generally small businesses who can't make money if online users are taking their product for free, he said.
"All it produces is copyrighted material. If you steal that from them, what do they have?" Randazza said. "Whether you like pornography or not, diversity of entertainment is part of what America is all about."
The lawsuits follow a general pattern: The film company sues a series of "John Does" and "Jane Does" identified only by Internet provider numbers, then seeks to subpoena the Internet provider for the subscriber's name. Once the company has the name, representatives call the subscribers and ask for a settlement ranging from $1,000 to $5,000 and threaten to file a $150,000 lawsuit for each copyrighted download that would name them publicly as someone who was associated with a pornographic film company.
Frequently, the film companies band together and seek a waiver of court fees for the lawsuits, minimizing their costs and making any money collected from the calls strictly profit.
Henry described the lawsuits as a business model that's probably more profitable than making films.
"It's brilliant in one sense of the word," Henry said. "But, it's wrong. It's just absolutely wrong."
Some federal judges are starting to agree and push back. Magistrate Judge Gary R. Brown in the Eastern District of New York pointed out how unreasonable the assumptions made by the film companies are in a ruling handed down in May in a case involving K-Beech.
The judge cited three "John Does" in one of the cases before him. Each had reasons or proof that they didn't or couldn't have downloaded the porn in question. One was at work, another was an octogenarian with "neither the wherewithal nor interest" in such a download, while a third found copying such a film contrary to her "religious, moral, ethical and personal views."
"The assumption that the person who pays for Internet access at a given location is the same individual who allegedly downloaded a single sexually explicit film is tenuous, and one that has grown more so over time," Brown wrote. "It is no more likely that the subscriber to an IP address carried out a particular computer function — here the purported illegal downloading of a single pornographic film — than to say an individual who pays the telephone bill made a specific telephone call."
Henry, the Kentucky attorney, agrees and notes that unsecured wireless accounts can leave open the possibility of people tapping the network and downloading anything they want.
"You don't know who is using the Internet on which computer," Henry said.
Randazza said generally, when an Internet provider number shows up, either the person who signed on to the service or someone connected to them has downloaded the movie in question.
"I'm not saying it's a 100 percent hit rate," Randazza said. "But, it is so rare you actually find someone who had no connection to it at all."
Gotvald, who set up a wireless account for his college-aged children, said in his affidavit that someone must have linked to his wireless network.
"I believe that a neighbor or passer-by access my wireless Internet connection and used it to download Raw Films' movie Raw Rescue," Gotvald wrote. "I have never seen any movie that could be the sort of movie I understand Raw Rescue to be, nor would I want to."
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JoeChartreuse
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Posted: Thu Jul 12, 2012 12:40 am |
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Joined: Wed Feb 07, 2007 1:12 pm Posts: 5046 Been Liked: 334 times
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Saying it without saying it. That's why you're the head moderator type person. If you had different parts I would propose.....
_________________ "No Contests, No Divas, Just A Good Time!"
" Disc based and loving it..."
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karaokegod73
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Posted: Fri Jul 13, 2012 1:19 am |
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Joined: Sat Nov 15, 2008 8:53 pm Posts: 187 Been Liked: 5 times
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Then there's that company that goes after people who bought their product.
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JoeChartreuse
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Posted: Fri Jul 27, 2012 2:03 pm |
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Joined: Wed Feb 07, 2007 1:12 pm Posts: 5046 Been Liked: 334 times
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I thought I would bump this thread in hopes that some might read the OP and possibly note some similarity to PR.
_________________ "No Contests, No Divas, Just A Good Time!"
" Disc based and loving it..."
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c. staley
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Posted: Sat Jul 28, 2012 4:49 am |
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Extreme Poster |
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Joined: Thu Jun 06, 2002 7:26 am Posts: 4839 Location: In your head rent-free Been Liked: 582 times
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JoeChartreuse wrote: I thought I would bump this thread in hopes that some might read the OP and possibly note some similarity to PR. Not quite a "similarity" at all. #1. At least Raw Films actually made the movie they claim was downloaded... #2. Piracy Recovery, LLC has created nothing. Including the very trademark they are suing over.
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timberlea
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Posted: Sat Jul 28, 2012 11:17 am |
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Joined: Wed Sep 04, 2002 12:41 pm Posts: 4094 Location: Dartmouth, Nova Scotia, Canada Been Liked: 309 times
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They may not have created it, but they own it. Michael Jackson never made any of The Beatles songs but he owned them for a while and had control. There is no difference. Ownership is ownership.
_________________ You can be strange but not a stranger
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Paradigm Karaoke
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Posted: Sat Jul 28, 2012 3:35 pm |
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Joined: Thu Aug 12, 2010 6:24 pm Posts: 5107 Location: Phoenix Az Been Liked: 1279 times
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glad you agree with the trolls Timberlea. maybe i should just go buy the Top Tunes trademark and sue everyone for playing the disc, i never gave permission for it to be displayed publicly......even though i have nothing to do with it and have lost no money or been damaged at all....you all owe me lots of money.
_________________ Paradigm Karaoke, The New Standard.......Shift Happens
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JoeChartreuse
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Posted: Sat Jul 28, 2012 11:46 pm |
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Joined: Wed Feb 07, 2007 1:12 pm Posts: 5046 Been Liked: 334 times
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Paradigm Karaoke wrote: glad you agree with the trolls Timberlea. maybe i should just go buy the Top Tunes trademark and sue everyone for playing the disc, i never gave permission for it to be displayed publicly......even though i have nothing to do with it and have lost no money or been damaged at all....you all owe me lots of money. Hence, my continually unanswered questions regarding any basis for PR attempting to sue for damages. Hae posted them several times in several threads, but HarringtonLaw seems to keep missing them... How about you, Timberlea? What would be the basis in regard to PR suing for damages? Can't be for misrepresenting their product- they don't have one. Lost sales? Nope, nothing to sell. Revenue gained through the use of an orphan logo? Proof? Any help here greatly appreciated as always....
_________________ "No Contests, No Divas, Just A Good Time!"
" Disc based and loving it..."
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Second City Song
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Posted: Sun Jul 29, 2012 12:28 am |
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Joined: Tue Oct 11, 2011 3:00 am Posts: 192 Location: Illinois Been Liked: 16 times
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JoeChartreuse wrote:
Hence, my continually unanswered questions regarding any basis for PR attempting to sue for damages. Hae posted them several times in several threads, but HarringtonLaw seems to keep missing them....
Maybe Harrington has you on ignore.
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chrisavis
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Posted: Sun Jul 29, 2012 7:14 am |
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Joined: Fri Dec 02, 2011 12:38 pm Posts: 6086 Images: 1 Location: Redmond, WA Been Liked: 1665 times
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As I just posted in another thread - When someone buys the assets of a company, they own the assets and whatever protections those assets may be granted.
So yes, go buy the Top Tunes trademark and start suing. Do the same for SGB and DK.
-Chris
_________________ -Chris
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timberlea
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Posted: Sun Jul 29, 2012 8:10 am |
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Joined: Wed Sep 04, 2002 12:41 pm Posts: 4094 Location: Dartmouth, Nova Scotia, Canada Been Liked: 309 times
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Exactly and that goes for ANY trademark. You may not like it but that's to bad. That's the law and life. You have a choice to support any trademark or not.
And don't forget the person/company obtaining the trademark usually pay put a lot of cash for it.
_________________ You can be strange but not a stranger
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Lone Wolf
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Posted: Sun Jul 29, 2012 9:15 am |
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Joined: Mon May 28, 2007 10:11 am Posts: 1832 Location: TX Been Liked: 59 times
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How bout we all get together and buy SC and put an end to this crap
_________________ I like everyone when I first meet them. If you don't like me that's not my problem it's YOURS! A stranger is a friend you haven't met yet
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c. staley
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Posted: Sun Jul 29, 2012 10:00 am |
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Extreme Poster |
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Joined: Thu Jun 06, 2002 7:26 am Posts: 4839 Location: In your head rent-free Been Liked: 582 times
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Lone Wolf wrote: How bout we all get together and buy SC and put an end to this crap No reason to... wait long enough.... it'll happen on it's own and it won't cost anything. After all, it's not like they're "gearing up to make music" anytime soon.
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Lone Wolf
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Posted: Sun Jul 29, 2012 3:53 pm |
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Joined: Mon May 28, 2007 10:11 am Posts: 1832 Location: TX Been Liked: 59 times
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Well if what is half way true as said in other parts of this forum about all you have to do is buy up the trade mark and start suing for the use of it I see SC doing just that or PR doing just that. They will buy up the defunct trademarks and start all over again, thus killing karaoke all together.
Somehow there needs to be and end put to it now. Will this be the next Supreme Court ruling?
_________________ I like everyone when I first meet them. If you don't like me that's not my problem it's YOURS! A stranger is a friend you haven't met yet
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JoeChartreuse
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Posted: Sun Jul 29, 2012 4:41 pm |
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Joined: Wed Feb 07, 2007 1:12 pm Posts: 5046 Been Liked: 334 times
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Second City Song wrote: JoeChartreuse wrote:
Hence, my continually unanswered questions regarding any basis for PR attempting to sue for damages. Hae posted them several times in several threads, but HarringtonLaw seems to keep missing them....
Maybe Harrington has you on ignore. Our debates can be heated, but are always respectful. I guess it's possible, but it would surprise me. I think he has more character than that.
_________________ "No Contests, No Divas, Just A Good Time!"
" Disc based and loving it..."
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JoeChartreuse
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Posted: Sun Jul 29, 2012 4:46 pm |
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Joined: Wed Feb 07, 2007 1:12 pm Posts: 5046 Been Liked: 334 times
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timberlea wrote: Exactly and that goes for ANY trademark. You may not like it but that's to bad. That's the law and life. You have a choice to support any trademark or not.
And don't forget the person/company obtaining the trademark usually pay put a lot of cash for it. Sure, they can sue- but that was NOT my question. I asked how PR could put a MONETARY VALUE on the suit with absolutely no damages. No product misrepresented, no lost sales of said non-existant product, etc... What would be the basis of a monetary evaluation? If you can't aswer, that's fine. I'm not picking on you or anyone else. I'm just looking for information.
_________________ "No Contests, No Divas, Just A Good Time!"
" Disc based and loving it..."
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timberlea
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Posted: Sun Jul 29, 2012 7:49 pm |
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Joined: Wed Sep 04, 2002 12:41 pm Posts: 4094 Location: Dartmouth, Nova Scotia, Canada Been Liked: 309 times
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How can you say there is non-existant product? As far as I can tell there is still CB product for sale and readily available. There still is monetary value whether you like it or not. The trademark still has value.
_________________ You can be strange but not a stranger
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c. staley
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Posted: Sun Jul 29, 2012 8:14 pm |
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Extreme Poster |
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Joined: Thu Jun 06, 2002 7:26 am Posts: 4839 Location: In your head rent-free Been Liked: 582 times
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timberlea wrote: How can you say there is non-existant product? As far as I can tell there is still CB product for sale and readily available. There still is monetary value whether you like it or not. The trademark still has value. PR did NOT "create the product" PR doesn't "own" the audio files according to Harrington - that "belongs" to DT. Now, what is the "existent product?" It isn't a "product"... it is a "mark"
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timberlea
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Posted: Sun Jul 29, 2012 8:32 pm |
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Joined: Wed Sep 04, 2002 12:41 pm Posts: 4094 Location: Dartmouth, Nova Scotia, Canada Been Liked: 309 times
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And yet the "mark" exists on all the "product".
_________________ You can be strange but not a stranger
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Paradigm Karaoke
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Posted: Sun Jul 29, 2012 8:36 pm |
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Joined: Thu Aug 12, 2010 6:24 pm Posts: 5107 Location: Phoenix Az Been Liked: 1279 times
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why is their mark on a product that someone else owns? doesn't that seem a bit weird?
_________________ Paradigm Karaoke, The New Standard.......Shift Happens
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