Karaoke Forums

I don't know if this is the right place to post, as this has nothing to do with the piracy side of karaoke, but I am interested to hear from anyone who knows how this works.

A bar owner where I have a regular Friday show came to me and asked me to stop advertising my show at his place on my website because he's been getting calls from "these people who deal with music in bars" wanting him to pay an extra $300 or $400 dollars for my once-a-week show there. I asked him if it was ASCAP/BMI, and he said he thought so. I thought that when a bar paid for music rights in their establishment to ASCAP/BMI that it covered all music (radio/D.J./live band/karaoke). He said that they wanted an additional fee not for the artists of the songs but for the song writers in recompense for our customers singing their songs publicly.

I've never had a request like this before. I do have one other bar owner who tells me that my once-a-month show at his place gets him calls from a music licensing agency, but again the details are vague. Anyone know what the deal is with this?

_________________
~Cindy
Karaoke. Because it's a lot cheaper than therapy.

there are three main organizations or PRO's (performing rights organizations) that collect money for different artists (depending on which organization the songwriter or artists signed up with) for public performance of the music.
a venue needs to pay those or they are breaking the law. yes, they DO have to pay them, they should have already been paying them, and they could get shut down for not paying them (i believe Lonnie had someone where that happened and the karaoke gear was locked up in the venue for a while until they went to court to get it back).
they may be paying for jukebox, but that comes from the jukebox company they lease it through or if they own it, it is their responsibility to do so and yes, live dj, live band, and karaoke are all add ons for that. the $300 he quoted you is most likely for an entire year so don;t feel that they have to pay that monthly, but if they have not been payin, they may have a lot of back payments and penalties.
watch these owners, if they have no issue trying to duck the law and cheat, i would not trust them ....

_________________
Paradigm Karaoke, The New Standard.......Shift Happens

I had a similar situation with a venue a couple years back. They asked me not to advertise so they would not have to pay increased PRO fees. I told them that not advertising was not an option.

They ultimately paid the increase, but he was not happy about it. That incident soured the owner on karaoke and we butted heads over a variety of things for the next two years. I finally dropped the gig a few months back.

_________________
-Chris

This is what happened to a local bar that I have been to. APSCAP did get paid eventually.

www.heraldtribune.com/article/20070222/ ... ?p=1&tc=pg

Good info, mrmarog. ‘made a copy to show the owner where I work. She bugs me all the time to chip-in a little $$ to cover ascap fees. 'never gave her a cent all these years.

Article page 2: “All copyrighted songs played in public -- from the opening credits of a movie, to elevator music, to that bad cover band at the corner bar -- require that the venue owners pay a fee. A small bar such as Woody's, for example, would pay somewhere between $175 and $500 a year to ASCAP, which would allow the owners access to millions of song titles".

_________________
To be fortunate enough to derive an income from a source as fulfilling as karaoke music has got to be as close to heaven as we can get here on earth!

Wow! Thanks for all the replies. Great info!

Knowing the bar owner (and the area--we're a pretty stubborn Northwoods lot here), I doubt he will pay them. I take my karaoke gear everywhere I go, so no risk of it being locked in the bar. I'm sure the licensing companies have educated him more about this than I ever could, so I suppose all I can do is comply with his request for the sake of keeping the peace and hope he stays in business.

Again, thank you for such quick and thorough responses!

_________________
~Cindy
Karaoke. Because it's a lot cheaper than therapy.

I'm printing out a few copies of that Herald article to give to my bar owners. I wonder how that impacts private, one-off functions like weddings and Independence Day parties.

_________________
~Cindy
Karaoke. Because it's a lot cheaper than therapy.

Too late, it they are already on the radar, they won't stop - advertising or not. Best thing for them is to just get into compliance. The club I worked felt they never needed to pay the first couple years, but were hit with back penalties & fines trying to duck it rather than just paying it.
Another club I worked had to stop ALL entertainment until they went into compliance - this included their tv, radio, etc. (which the bar should be paying for these as well).

_________________
LIKE Lonman on Facebook - Lonman Productions Karaoke & my main site via my profile!

Is there a separate licensing group they have to pay for TV broadcasts? This is a sports bar, and the place is wall-to-wall (and ceiling) televisions and big screen projectors.

I know they have DJ's there a couple of times a month, they play music from Pandora or from their jukebox all the rest of the time. So I won't feel bad that it's just karaoke that caused them an "extra" expense.

_________________
~Cindy
Karaoke. Because it's a lot cheaper than therapy.

No it's all covered under the BMI/ASCAP/SESAC - which they do need to pay all 3 btw. Even if they have a tv only, they need to pay these fees. Most bar owners are not aware and do not think they have to. DJ, Karaoke, Live music are add ons - but are minimal to the base fees, and it's based on capacity as well. Our club seats approx 200+ and there fee breaks down to approx $10 or 12 per night for a year for all 3 (no bar should go broke with that a couple pitchers will make that up). And if they refuse, the bar can possibily get into a lawsuit situation with them and most likely lose if that were to occur.

_________________
LIKE Lonman on Facebook - Lonman Productions Karaoke & my main site via my profile!

Muzak made a few bucks piping in music to everything from night clubs to shopping malls. They handled the PROs, just like the juke box businesses did in their time.

Most of todays owners think it's all free. They need to pay them.

Thanks for that info, Lonnie.

_________________
~Cindy
Karaoke. Because it's a lot cheaper than therapy.