Karaoke Forums

Or my position, which is 4) Support the efforts to stamp out piracy, but refuse to get involved for these reasons. First, any support offered to the manus that are (or may soon be) suing my client venues may come back to haunt me. Second, they approach local KJs to be the local reviewer, but they won't even pay for your gas. And then, they turn around and win big settlements and transform my local pirate into legal competition.

I believe I was the first to take this position because, as far a I know, I was the only one on here to mention that I was approached to be a reviewer, which I declined when I saw what was REALLY happening.

Take the music out of the settlement and I might reconsider.

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I'm not a cheerleader, but I paid for my pom poms with my own money!

spotlightjr wrote:

Because I support SC, CB, and soon Stellar I'm labeled a "cheerleader". In most cases that word is considered a term of endearment but on these boards it wreaks of sarcasm and vitriol. Anti SC folks throw that word around constantly trying to provoke or belittle any pro SC poster and yet get their panties in a wad when the tables are turned.
These discussions are heated now and sides have definitely been taken. Most are firmly planted with their beliefs and anything contradictory to that fuels the fire. We are at the point of needing moderators ourselves to even converse on this subject let alone agree on anything.
It's a tough road from here no matter whose side your on.

I disagree.

I believe it's deeper than that and I think that both sides really don't understand the other.

#1. The "cheerleaders" think that the other side is "anti-SC" and that's just not true. No one on this "side" is against SC going after pirates that have stolen from them. No one on this "side" has ever stated they didn't produce a quality product. I can't speak for the others, but my problem is their incredible double-standard (they have been sued for willful and repeated copyright piracy) and absolute disregard in their methodology - not to mention the they're now suing for the exact permission they granted repeatedly, years ago.

More importantly however, is SC's real intent of taking control of this business first, by abusing the legal system to appear as though they are some kind of self-appointed authority and second by attempting to do the same with with their safe-harbor program for the venues as well. It is to me at least, a monopolistic and sinister turn for the worse. And this type of activity on their part is not new. Worse is using the the distraction method of "we're fighting piracy for you flag waving that so transparent, it looks like the Grinch talking to Cindy-Lou Who about fixing her Christmas tree.

Years ago, the SC distributor program was simple and very one-sided: You either agreed to "voluntarily comply with their pricing programs" or you didn't get a distributorship of their products. For that, they were slammed with accusations of "price fixing" which was accurate in my opinion. They wanted to gain as much control over anyone that touched their product... all the while they were knowingly, willingly, and repeatedly, stealing from the publishers by failing to license not a few, but HUNDREDS of tracks. And there are plenty of lawsuits that bear that out to be true. So they've lost any possibilty of regaining any type of business respect or integrity in my book and they are simply trying to sue the world to regain something they'll never get back.

So to me, it's more about control and the double-standard than anything else.

#2. The "anti-SC/CB" group sees the "cheerleaders" in many cases, as willing to accept any story and will do whatever necessary to keep that product at any cost. And that cost includes their own right to privacy -which they are welcome to do. Worse, it is their acceptance that SC is some sort of authority that can demand by using the legal system, a search and additional conditions regarding a product they sold and were paid for years ago. However, most damaging is not only this acceptance, but their willingness to "spread the word" in a form that -especially to newcomers- paints SC and CB as though they are some type of legitimate legal authority that have rights when in reality, they don't. It's a blind acceptance for anything they say as legal and gospel and what they want their customers to do that the anti-group has a problem with.

The "anti-group" sees this attitude as mass-misinformation because in the real world, no one "has to get an audit" as though it's some entry-level prerequisite for entry into this business. If you own discs and you do get sued, it won't go anywhere. Because to date - two YEARS and hundreds of suits later - it never has. No person who owns their discs has ever been denied by SC or CB to use them on a computer and not because of their generous and forgiving attitudes, quite the opposite - it will create more problems for them than it will solve.

Because of the high number of suits and that not a single suit has ever been decided by a jury despite the demands for a jury trial, (I don't consider a settlement as completed but your mileage may vary) the "anti-group" sees this as speaking volumes and wonder why the "cheerleaders" seem so willing to turn a blind-eye to this double-standard.


But that's all just my opinion... you are free to agree to disagree if you like (and wish to continue being wrong )

There is only one group that can cahnge things and that is the legislators. Only a change in the current laws will alter the industry. Right now the manus are acting entirely within their rights, whether you like it or not. Complaining to the manus won't change 1:1 or ripping or whatever, that has to be done in Washington DC, Ottawa, London, etc.

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You can be strange but not a stranger

I am not on either side. But, I will say this. When you purchase intellectual property, you do not own it - rather you are afforded certain rights under the licensing agreement. They have the right to phrohibit any sort of duplication or reproduction. It says so on most of the disks I have ever owned.

I am computer based AND CAVS based. However, by reproducing their songs (aka format shifting), I have invited legal action because doing so is a direct violation of the license.

Will I get sued for it? Maybe. Am I worried? Nope. I have 2 disks for every song in my books (2 systems). I have nothing to hide.

But once again, I accepted the risk when I "format shifted". I trust that SC/CB is not following through on legal action against those who pass an audit while these manu's contemplate legal action.

And will I submit to an audit to stave off potential legal action. YES. I just won't pay for it.

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I'm not a cheerleader, but I paid for my pom poms with my own money!

I disagree.

There are other avenues in the U.S. that might not be available in Canada.

How about this for a thought. we've argued the pros and cons for years, and still can't come to any agreement about SC, piracy, law suits, trademark infringement, the competency of SC lawyers, and a dozen other things. There is only one way to stop this arguing, bickering, and name calling: Have the moderators delete all of the piracy and legalities threads, and lets get back to talking about karaoke.

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My first choice IS Sound Choice.

I don't see how deleting the threads altogether will be helpful. There is MUCH to be learned from BOTH sides in those for anyone new coming in. Which brings up another point.
I like your suggestion on abandoning the topic (but not deleting it!), but that will only work until someone new comes in asking questions. Then it all starts again!

These threads were created specifically to keep this subject matter from clogging up the regular forms and that's what it was doing. Deleting them will undo that process and the clogging will simply begin again.

I like having them available and seperated from the other forums; it's like a channel on a television - if you don't like it, don't watch (or read) the channel.

I don't have a problem with debating a point obviously, it's the "souring" of the thread when the personal attacks and taunting begins. That's the part that doesn't belong here or anywhere else for that matter.

TroyVnd27 wrote:

Or my position, which is 4) Support the efforts to stamp out piracy, but refuse to get involved for these reasons. First, any support offered to the manus that are (or may soon be) suing my client venues may come back to haunt me. Second, they approach local KJs to be the local reviewer, but they won't even pay for your gas. And then, they turn around and win big settlements and transform my local pirate into legal competition.

I believe I was the first to take this position because, as far a I know, I was the only one on here to mention that I was approached to be a reviewer, which I declined when I saw what was REALLY happening.

Take the music out of the settlement and I might reconsider.

I applaud your position wholeheartedly and you hit the nail on the head when you said "when I saw what was REALLY happening." because there are so many people that don't have a clue that there is a difference between the propaganda and reality.

(BTW, was in Grand Rapids yesterday.... I'll make it to Muskegon area one of these days!)

It appears that that has already begun. At least two whole topic threads have disappeared... "The Emperor Has No Clothes" and "NJ Lawsuits." OK, I can see why the 1st one is gone, although shortly before it was deleted, someone (who appears to barely speak English) was asking for some advice (and we were giving him some advice). The other thread, I'm not quite sure why it was deleted. It did have some info in there about what was happening with some of the lawsuits.

While it's not my call, I think it would have been better to just lock the threads rather than delete them. This way whatever useful info they may have contained would not have been lost as well.

Spotlight, speaking for myself, I mean no disrespect by that term. While the name may have started out as you have described some time ago, it has since been embraced by those who agree with SC's methodology.

If you take a look, you will even see "proud cheerleader" or similar in a few signature lines. I don't use it as a term of derision, but merely as a label for that group, and it is generally excepted that way.

BTW- I only wear unwaddable panties....

This is just an internet forum. Nothing to get emotional about.

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"No Contests, No Divas, Just A Good Time!"

" Disc based and loving it..."

I'll add 3 cent to your two for a nickel's worth. I agree with you, and am very sorry to lose all of that information, especially in the thread about my home state of NJ.

Locking is better, and if neccesary, delete offensive posts. I was of the forum for a day or two, so I have no idea what happened to that thread. I would greatly appreciate a PM to bring me up to date, if anyone would be kind enough...

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"No Contests, No Divas, Just A Good Time!"

" Disc based and loving it..."

Well Joe, we can agree to disagree I guess. The Cheerleader term in my honest opinion is never used in any other way on this forum other than to rile up the pro SC people.

While I am emotional about various things in my life "forum lingo" isn't one of them. Was simply responding to a previous post.

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Sound Choice and Chartbuster Certified

He didn't mean mean civilized the way you think he did (as in civilized and savages), he meant being able to communicate better with us through the Google translator. Yes Ed this is much better.

Sorry about you being taken in and I personally wouldn't protect someone who has caused me grief, possibly a business, and money.

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You can be strange but not a stranger

Posts/persons/IP addresses not adding to the topic have been removed..

More may be removed later..

Please stay on topic..

Sorry but I disagree with this. It's simple really in my opinion, if you don't want to debate about the piracy issue, stay off this side of the forum. I'm not picking sides, I'm somewhere in the middle anyway, just saying.

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KingBing Entertainment C'mon Up! I have a song for you!!! [font=MS Sans Serif][/font]

Thanks.