Karaoke Scene's Karaoke Forums :: Strange thought, yet I wonder

While Karaoke IS the entertainment at many bars, NOBODY would pay, or wilfully go to most bars to see and hear MOST of the individuals singing on stage sing. In fact quite honestly, certain bars have LOST the business of certain clientel because such individuals are not in the mood to hear what THEY deem as distasteful noise into a microphone by those that are annoying to hear... Face it, I have not gone to many bars on many nights (and MANY older folks won't) because they want to see SKILL on stage, or HEAR somebody who CAN perform, perform.. Karaoke for some, and given times CAN be annoying. It's likely (besides early school reports in front of a class) one of the VERY limited activities that condones inability to get on stage and "do your thing". A very rare exception of when "being on stage does NOT take the audiences wishes into consideration". That's not the goal of Karaoke.

Author:	Steven Kaplan [ Tue May 22, 2007 3:44 pm ]
Post subject:	Strange thought, yet I wonder
In real, The world of the performer (either in the Arts, Sports) requires the individual have a degree of skill in a particular area. Often a leading roll, or many rolls discriminate of course based upon looks, skill, you name it.. There's little that is Politically Correct in the "real world of the performing arts", and for that matter, the competitive sports arena. In a way, this IS an area where an element of discrimination has been allowed, NOT all have an equal Oppt. A performer who's obese MAY be denied a leading roll where the "star" is required to appear svelte and sexy. Fair or not, the eye in most areas of aesthetics due to conditioned biases IS biased and discriminates.... It's a type of allowable discrimination. Many of the most talented are denied certain rolls based on what they CAN'T furnish due to what they are not. While Karaoke IS the entertainment at many bars, NOBODY would pay, or wilfully go to most bars to see and hear MOST of the individuals singing on stage sing. In fact quite honestly, certain bars have LOST the business of certain clientel because such individuals are not in the mood to hear what THEY deem as distasteful noise into a microphone by those that are annoying to hear... Face it, I have not gone to many bars on many nights (and MANY older folks won't) because they want to see SKILL on stage, or HEAR somebody who CAN perform, perform.. Karaoke for some, and given times CAN be annoying. It's likely (besides early school reports in front of a class) one of the VERY limited activities that condones inability to get on stage and "do your thing". A very rare exception of when "being on stage does NOT take the audiences wishes into consideration". That's not the goal of Karaoke. Does anybody envision a world someplace down the road, where Broadway actors and actresses, musicians in larger groups or even athletes that do not have certain desirable requirements or going to lose discrimination suits because of an OVERLY "PC" world, hence "the best" will become limited in terms of auditions within performers venues ? Just a sudden thought I had.... SHOULD all have equal Oppt when trying out for various roles, or will there always be a place for certain types of discrimination and personal bias ? Because face it, we ARE conditioned, and DO have preferences as viewers paying to see performances.

Author:	MorganLeFey [ Tue May 22, 2007 3:49 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Strange thought, yet I wonder
discrimination in one guise or another will always exist honey

Author:	Kellyoke [ Tue May 22, 2007 3:52 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Strange thought, yet I wonder
Would you cast a 400lb. man to play Ghandi?? I don't think so. Kelly

Author:	Steven Kaplan [ Tue May 22, 2007 3:53 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Strange thought, yet I wonder
That is exactly what I'm wonderintg Vicki, since people will ALWAYS have individual preferences, and demand a certain right to like what they like, and dislike what they choose NOT to like (imposed law or not), there will never be a way to actually eliminate discrimination, but still, that doesn't mean that there won't be a fight by thosing feeling discriminated against in most areas. We like what we like, and do not like what we do not like. (my thoughts on this)

Author:	Steven Kaplan [ Tue May 22, 2007 3:57 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Strange thought, yet I wonder
Quote: Would you cast a 400lb. man to play Ghandi?? I don't think so. but what I personally wish for, or don't wish to see, (or personally find aesthetically unappealing/ appealing doesn't seem to matter when a certain group is claiming that they too should have equal rights under the law. And, Should in NO way be limited based upon what is viewed as their "book cover" (appearance). This is what concerns me Kelly, Years ago many WOULD NOT cast females in certain rolls, OR allow them certain jobs, or even allow blacks, certain ethnicities or females the same opportunity as white males because (in the minds of many due to what they had become accustomed to) "It's just not supposed to be this way". We still don't live in a country ready for a female president despite "womens rights", and certain ethnic groups (in the eyes of many) stand a lesser chance of certain opportunities despote quota's that must be filled (due to law). Whether you or I believe this is legitimate, what we personally might pay to see seems to take a back seat in many of these discriminations suits..UNLESS perhaps Corporate and American greed supercedes these areas (which it might very well). So I don't know, hence the question. Again, Just a brief thought that I have on this.. I don't know what some individuals, or certain law-makers MIGHT in time attempt of deem as NOT being "politically correct", yet might it fall onto the performing areas too ? or will individuals greed and direct loss of revenue ALWAYS supercede what appears to be laws impeding the PC movement from becoming what to many mainstreamers consider extremely repressing to a mainstream public ? Thing is, while I understand how this works, think about it.. A Lot of what WE discriminate against, we do-so in lieu of WHAT WE have been culturally exposed to.. So the vicious cycle. Will such attempts (under a guise of deconditioning a wrongly conditioned culture, or culture that has learned to condone discriminatory actions) ever likely be considered justifiable grounds to make certain that a few 400 lb individuals DO get placed into a Ghandi role ? (lets say according to Kelly's example), NOT allowing ONLY those that are physically "suited" a certain right to that roll ? Will the media be forced to NOT show the powerful, the sexy, and the great lovers by what their "visible characteristics" are, and distribute soap opera roles evenly among ALL with any appearance ? Will we reach a point in this PC world where the viewer is DECONDITIONED by the media since what we are attracted to might be considered wrong, and setting the viewer up to become partial ? Since we often are culturally conditioned to be attracted to appearances we get used to ? Or isn't this how situations can work. How far MIGHT this go ? Will loss of ticket sales just reinforce how discrimination in certain a capacity IS a real aspect of life, and similarly revenue and ticket draw to the box office declining counteracts business greed, so this will never get off the ground ? Dunno.. Never followed suits where females parents in school sue football teams because their girl wants to play, or coed wrestling leagues, or girls in "boy Souts" etc. When Is a companies right to hire a vocalist based on stage presence, hire an actor based on physical features, and individual preference NOT considered discriminatory ? Or accepted as "justifiable free choice" in cases of the Performing Arts, and Sports ? I haven't followed any of this.. Just a thought.

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Author:	knightshow [ Tue May 22, 2007 8:07 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Strange thought, yet I wonder
Steven, this is as old as the very plays that Shakespeare wrote, I'm afraid. In the perfoming arts, you have to LOOK good. There's the selling point. Why did many artists in the pre-mtv days do well that don't do well nowadays? Frankly, I'm overweight and bald, and I'm pizzed off that I can't go on American Idol!! (not really, but I think you get my point).

Author:	MorganLeFey [ Tue May 22, 2007 9:02 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Strange thought, yet I wonder
how bout this for reverse racism at its most dangerous... the NZ government decided they would allow lower graded indigenous people to attend and qualify med school providing they agree to practise in the more remote rural areas. So in a diabolical politically correct world, your GP may have flunked med school but still be practising simply because of the colour of their skin

Author:	Babs [ Tue May 22, 2007 10:34 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Strange thought, yet I wonder
Steven Kaplan @ Tue May 22, 2007 5:44 pm wrote: While Karaoke IS the entertainment at many bars, NOBODY would pay, or wilfully go to most bars to see and hear MOST of the individuals singing on stage sing. In fact quite honestly, certain bars have LOST the business of certain clientel because such individuals are not in the mood to hear what THEY deem as distasteful noise into a microphone by those that are annoying to hear... Face it, I have not gone to many bars on many nights (and MANY older folks won't) because they want to see SKILL on stage, or HEAR somebody who CAN perform, perform.. Karaoke for some, and given times CAN be annoying. It's likely (besides early school reports in front of a class) one of the VERY limited activities that condones inability to get on stage and "do your thing". A very rare exception of when "being on stage does NOT take the audiences wishes into consideration". That's not the goal of Karaoke. I'm sorry, but I have to take issue with this statement. How many karaoke venues have you been too? Your statement is a bit contradictary because I have seen people who would never make it big because the way they look come to karaoke with huge talent that otherwise would not be heard because of the fact they don't have the right look - to old, over weight, facially challenged etc.... I have been brought to tears at karaoke by a song sang and been so entertained I didn't want the night to end. Using karaoke in your statements to me is unfair. There is a lot of talent that comes to sing at my bar. I agree that MTV has killed the days of a talented singer that isn't pleasing to look at, but to say karaoke is all untalented people and people without skill is wrong. sorry Kappy I get a bit protective of my karaoke.

Author:	Steven Kaplan [ Tue May 22, 2007 11:39 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Strange thought, yet I wonder
Quote: sorry Kappy I get a bit protective of my karaoke. That's OK. You are free to disagree, no hard feelings.. :worship: :worship: :worship: Respectful disagreement is what makes for interesting discussion on these issues. I believe that while Karaoke is a fabulous thing for "some". And in my case my application of it as a musician has been very different than what many here use it as (for me it's a practice tool, something done privately only, so I can hopefully learn to sing) Karaoke as quality entertainment for somebody that just wishes to sit, be left alone with a date, the person who wishes NOT to participate in such an activity, but is looking for straight harmonious music, (or nothing at all) will often not be in the mood for a LOUD PA at a bar with people singing whatever they wish, and often OFF KEY.. and untastefully because there are some styles that are only tolerable (at best) for some of us that when sung in key, we tolerate it....Hacks are often something many are NOT in a mood to have to put up with as entertainment, SOME even are obnoxious, and plain annoying. I have to be in a tolerant mood to go to a place that has karaoke, I often am not. Quote: There is a lot of talent that comes to sing at my bar. Yet there're many more (at least where I've gone locally quite a few places over time) that make me cringe, and really disturb me as someone sitting at a table who's trying to unwind. It's not designed as quality entertainment for an audience. Not all are tolerant of certain things.. That's OK Babs. All differences in opinion allowed :hug: Although I never did state there ISN'T a lot of talent in Karaoke, I did state however that there are also a lot of annoying people that get up to a microphone (because the nature of what Karaoke is DOES NOT take into consideration the listener who wishes for something tasteful in the background (across the board), Karaoke is for those who want Karaoke, and often people wish for an actual tasteful entertainer, Some of us become agitated by some of these kids screaming distastefully into microphones, it really DOES grate on me during certain periods. Similarly, A couple, or person in the mood for a peaceful tranqual night of harmonious sounds ONLY, somebody that wishes for mellow, or who just wishes to sit at a bar, talk, or do something else may very well NOT wish to be in the audience having to put up with even SOME of these peoples noise depending on style of music, etc. Remember, for an individual that wishes to be entertained by something asthetically pleasing (on a night out) Karaoke doesn't assure the audience of this.. It;s for the participants, not the couple or person that just wants to go out, relax in a harmonious quiet environment, and be left alone. Does this mean I don't think Karaoke is great ? NOPE.. It is great BUT it's not for all, all the time. JMO.. Karaoke is fun for those that want to do Karaoke, or are tolerant of many that can not sing, Believe it or not, some people get up in front of a microphone and really are annoying to hear, some are like nails on a chalkboard, and certain loud styles of brash noise is tough to filter out if you aren't in a mood to put up with it.

Author:	Murray C [ Wed May 23, 2007 7:19 am ]
Post subject:	Re: Strange thought, yet I wonder
Quote: Babs wrote: ..."I have seen people who would never make it big because the way they look come to karaoke with huge talent that otherwise would not be heard because of the fact they don't have the right look - to old, over weight, facially challenged etc.... " Not only applies to karaoke... just look at the way American Idol voters got rid of the best singer last week! I mean Melinda Doolittle was a class above the other contestants, but one can only surmise that it was because she wasn't the next cover-girl that she got the boot!

Author:	Babs [ Wed May 23, 2007 9:14 am ]
Post subject:	Re: Strange thought, yet I wonder
When you watch some of the old music videos the singers aren't very pretty. Compare them to todays standards and a lot of the old artists would have had a hard time being excepted because of their looks. If you aren't pleasant to look at in todays videos you'll notice they don't do close ups on them. If you are the guitar player they may not even show your face at all.

Author:	Steven Kaplan [ Wed May 23, 2007 1:02 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Strange thought, yet I wonder
This is what I'm wondering. What are the chances that activities such as Karaoke will give a few (albeit VERY few) the idea that THEY have every right to be on the same stage with REAL talent that actually belongs on stage. Or what might the chances be of people in a short time fighting the fact that they haven't gotten parts because they're being discriminated against ? Might EVERYBODY being able to get up on stage give some the wrong Idea or the idea that THEY belong on a stage despite the fact they stink at what they do ? Remember, MANY MORE frivolous discrimination suits have been tried in courts. People that bring these discrimation suits to courts ARE not usually looking at what the mainstream public wants. In fact they usually don't care. If a person is an excellent actor, but let's say (according to Kellys example) he does in fact weight 400 lbs.. and he is told he has been refused the part due to his weight despite all that we believe is reasonable.. can't that be considered discrimination based upon "weight" ? Let's forget reasoning here... People that aren't qualified are now being put into positions because corporations are afraid of discrimination suits. They just have no choice. This is what I'm wondering ? How far can this stuff go ? Might the wrong people getting up on stage and loving it end up bringing down the quality of standards of competitive aspects of the arts and sports ? Some things HAVE been a certain way for as long as mankind can recall, HOWEVER, it's discrimination suits that changes these things... IE.... Wasn't there even some case about a "PC" Barbie Doll ? Etc.. There really are cases despite what most of us WANT to see. Might activities such as Karaoke change the face of the Performing Arts an area where discrimination (according to some) exists ?

Author:	Steven Kaplan [ Wed May 23, 2007 1:24 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Strange thought, yet I wonder
Let's assume a singer is told "you just don't look the part" of the lead our corporation is looking for. Or an actor is told, "You really are a superior actor but your presence isn't what we want", (and the actor is obese) At what point is discrimination not contestable ? I have no answers. I'm opening this up for ALL opinions on this. None of this is based on my established opinion either way, however it IS something I'm curious about, so I figured I'd put it on the table to bat around, and kick the tires abit

Author:	atxklown [ Wed May 23, 2007 6:47 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Strange thought, yet I wonder
Even if this was a perfect world, the perfect people would still have something to judge about one another. And Al Sharpton & Jesse Jackson are thankfull every day that no such world exists.

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Author:	Steven Kaplan [ Wed May 23, 2007 7:27 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Strange thought, yet I wonder
Yep atxklown, I suppose certain people aren't happy unless they have something to moan about. As you say, in a perfect world, people will struggle much harder to find imperfection, even if it means fabricating it LOL

Author:	exweedfarmer [ Wed May 23, 2007 8:11 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Strange thought, yet I wonder
I saw an interview on one of the country music chanels, where they were talking to a former producer who was of advanced years and had worked with most of the big names of the 50's and 60's (I wish I could remember the particulars but I can't so this is not an exact quote) but the gist of the conversations as it applies to this thread went something like this: Interviewer: "How do you think someone like Patsy Cline would have done in today's country music market?" Producer: "She'd still be waiting tables." Interviewer: "Why do you say that?" Producer: "'cause she was fat and ugly." That wasn't exactly what they said except for the fat and ugly line. I laughed my donkey off, but that sure rang true about the music business.

Author:	Steven Kaplan [ Wed May 23, 2007 9:25 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Strange thought, yet I wonder
You've gotten into yet another thing I think about given trend, style and times.. Say the Beatles never existed (however for whatever reasons, music progressed to where it is today).. 2007 the Beatles make the scene exactly as they started in the 1960's. They get heard, BUT despite how respected they became over 40 years ago, Would that type ballad every get airplay today, would their music stand a chance today even though the music today is somewhat ecclectic ? Would they be able to make it today as a new group (introducing their music today over 40 years later)? OR, would todays mainstream listener think of them as tacky, boring, and overly processed sounding, too old fashioned a style about "love" "hand-holding", "diamond rings", "yah yah yah" etc.. But even Revolver, Help and Rubber Soul, or any of their psychedelic genre such as Sgt Pepper, Abby Road, and the White Album.. with their harmonies, and compositions would they fit into ANY aspect of todays pop culture ? Would it be likely they'd still carve their own niche in lieu of their skills which would transcend time ? Interesting hypothetical concept.. Is it just as impulsive as a flash of lightening that those that made it when they did, made it at all ? What style of music would Elvis fit into today if he popped out've nowhere ? Country ? Blues ? Pop ? or wouldn't Elvis stand a chance as a solo artist today ?

Author:	MorganLeFey [ Wed May 23, 2007 11:16 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Strange thought, yet I wonder
bruddy hell if patsy cline was fat I am an elephant :shock: as to ugly it was more the stylists that needed shooting...the hairstyle and those stupid fringed shirts that do nothing except add weight to an anorexic