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Speakers 12" vs 15"
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Author:  jamkaraoke [ Mon Mar 12, 2007 1:04 pm ]
Post subject:  Speakers 12" vs 15"
Starting a new gig on Wednesday.  The bar is on the VERY small side.
Little stage area facing the short side of the room ( if you can picture) .

Anyway... I am thinking that I won't  be BLASTING the music much.
I am replacing a KJ there and the crowds are not there (yet).  
So ... Am I better off still using my Yamaha SV115 iv cabinets  or would
some lite weight Peavey 12'"'s..actual sound better in a smaller room where I know there will be little thumping bass required?

Either way I would still power with a Crown XLS602D. 380w x 2 @ 8ohms.  

I know there is no right or wrong ...just some opinions

appreciate the suggestions !!!
Author:  Lonman [ Mon Mar 12, 2007 1:10 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Speakers 12" vs 15"
I would still use the Yamaha 115 personally (although the amp is better rated for the Peaveys).  These don't put out alot of the low thump but will sound much fuller than the 12".  8"-12" PA speakers are generally designated more for midrange applications.  If you were to use the 12's with at least 1 sub on the floor, then i'd go with the 12" (/sub combo).  Size of a bar don't matter to me, I want the best, fullest, clearest sound I can offer.
Author:  knightshow [ Mon Mar 12, 2007 1:35 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Speakers 12" vs 15"
offering another opinion, Jam (and no offense, Lonnie), I ran many a bar with a simple set of 12"s... depending on your sound field and make of the speakrs, you shouldn't have too many problems.

A sub wouldn't do well in the bars I used to work at... just not enough room audiowise for the extra thump. My opinion only!
Author:  twansenne [ Mon Mar 12, 2007 1:55 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Speakers 12" vs 15"
I agree with Lon and Knight.....

Personal I would use 15", just for the fuller sound.

And I wouldn't use subs in a small venue, the thump can get irritiating after a while.

If the 12"s sound good use em, but if ya got 15s use em.  Why skimp when ya don't have to.
Author:  Lonman [ Mon Mar 12, 2007 2:24 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Speakers 12" vs 15"
Subs aren't necessarily for low end thump - although that is typically what they are for.  They are also used to round out/fill out the sound of smaller speakers - such as the 12's.  Good thing about subs are they don't have to be 2 of them (especially in smaller locations), they don't have to be in the mainline with the other speakers as low frequencies are essentially non-directional so one could be tucked away in a corner somewhere, so a small 15" sub in a small bar will generally be more than enough.  Personally I won't do another show without at least 1 - again, size of the room don't matter, that's where 'tuning the room' comes into play  :wave:
But getting back on topic, yes the 15's will most likely be more than adequate.
Author:  timberlea [ Mon Mar 12, 2007 6:12 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Speakers 12" vs 15"
And who says the sub have to be on full blast.  Adjust them and the speakers for the size of the venue.
Author:  Lonman [ Mon Mar 12, 2007 6:29 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Speakers 12" vs 15"
timberlea @ Mon Mar 12, 2007 6:12 pm wrote:
And who says the sub have to be on full blast.  Adjust them and the speakers for the size of the venue.


Exactly!
Author:  jamkaraoke [ Tue Mar 13, 2007 5:08 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Speakers 12" vs 15"
Thanks Guys - Currently not using any SUBS with my set up.  The space limitations at my regular Saturday gig venue wouldn't allow the use of the sub.  This venue is is  just smaller so thats why I asked the question.

The 15" are just better speakers (no doubt) but as you know twice the weight.
On occasions I have used the 12" with no problems ..usually for some smaller DJ work and occasion some KJ as well. ---  I guess as a FIRST IMPRESSION at this new gig I am better  off hoofing in the 15"  as suggested would be a fuller sound.

I was worried at a lower volume the 15" wouldnt sound as good as a 12" ?

Thanks Again
Author:  Lonman [ Tue Mar 13, 2007 7:22 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Speakers 12" vs 15"
jamkaraoke @ Tue Mar 13, 2007 5:08 am wrote:
I was worried at a lower volume the 15" wouldnt sound as good as a 12" ?

Thanks Again


Actually with the lower volume, if you needed more bass, you could turn the bass up more.  They should sound just fine at the lower volume.
Author:  Steven Kaplan [ Wed Mar 14, 2007 5:28 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Speakers 12" vs 15"
Jam,   assuming you want bass response, I wouldn't use some "generic" 12" speaker that isn't rated to handle bass response you might opt for.  Comparing a 15 we have specs of, with a generic 12 we don't have specs on even for a small room doesn't offer a fair comparison.  This depends on specs of speakers, type of cab used, placement, etc.   There are 10 inch sub-cabs *depending on make and again enclosure* that will sound better than a 15 that doesn't offer features you want. Some speakers offer better sound at certain levels despite their size, they need to be pushed,  others are rated for a broader spectrum of volume.  Tough call.  Depends on the Peavey speaker you are speaking of, and cabinet as well as placement, and room acoustics, setup etc. I have 15's that believe it or not DO NOT offer decent bass response, even JBL.   The K series doesn't.  However in a different cab, it might.  ALL depends. My EV, and Celestion 10's are designed for bass however.  I'd take them both, and see what you like, I don't know how this can be determined without trying it out based on info furnished
Author:  dougpke [ Thu Mar 15, 2007 4:48 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Speakers 12" vs 15"
I agree with Steven. Try them both out. The acoustics of the room could very well suprise you as to which speakers sound best..... LOL

Premiere Karaoke Ent. LLC
http://www. premiere-karaoke.com
Author:  jamkaraoke [ Thu Mar 15, 2007 5:58 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Speakers 12" vs 15"
Last Night I had my 1st show at the NEW GIG and I decided to use the YAMAHA Sv115IV and had a great response from the crowd, owner and the Bartender ( who seem to give the best critisism) .  The room wasn't as small as I thought  (lol)
They have another entire room with another Bar in it that they don't use and the sound just traveled across the bar into the empty room.  1st night sound was good but can only get better
Author:  lyquiddye [ Thu Mar 15, 2007 7:58 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Speakers 12" vs 15"
Buy a sub and put it in the empty room you will be amazed in the difference to your ears.
Author:  jamkaraoke [ Thu Mar 15, 2007 8:03 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Speakers 12" vs 15"
A sub is a prospect down the road... I took this gig on a "lets start at this FEE and see how it goes "  If the crowd picks up and remains steady I will see if a "raise" is warranted in where I can spend some cash on a sub.  :D  :D
Author:  timberlea [ Thu Mar 15, 2007 1:02 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Speakers 12" vs 15"
I'm not sure why people say a sub takes up a lot of room.  In reality the same area space is needed for a sub or a speaker tripod stand.   For me, I prefer powered subs with powered 12s.   If subs aren't available or affordable, I'd go with powered 15s.
Author:  Steven Kaplan [ Thu Mar 15, 2007 10:18 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Speakers 12" vs 15"
Since this is along the same realm as what Jam is discussing, I will contain it within this thread.  When adding a subwoofer to a PA,  given sub-frequencies, their omnidirectional nature, etc. Does matching the voicings of your mains, and compatibility of tonal coloration come into play even still, my assumption would be yes, but I really don't know.  I assume even though sub frequencies are a less discernible audio frequency to the human ear, there still must be some degree of voicing compatibility with the main PA speakers when considering adding on a sub-woofer ? Balancing and matching voicings correctly still are as important for overall sound ?
Author:  Lonman [ Fri Mar 16, 2007 1:16 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Speakers 12" vs 15"
Steven Kaplan @ Thu Mar 15, 2007 10:18 pm wrote:
Since this is along the same realm as what Jam is discussing, I will contain it within this thread.  When adding a subwoofer to a PA,  given sub-frequencies, their omnidirectional nature, etc. Does matching the voicings of your mains, and compatibility of tonal coloration come into play even still, my assumption would be yes, but I really don't know.  I assume even though sub frequencies are a less discernible audio frequency to the human ear, there still must be some degree of voicing compatibility with the main PA speakers when considering adding on a sub-woofer ? Balancing and matching voicings correctly still are as important for overall sound ?


Well whenever possible you want to try to voice match - ie same type of system/series, but if you have a good active crossover & proper amps driving the speakers, it shouldn't be a big issue.
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