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| Singers who can not hear themselves in the monitor https://mail.karaokescene.net/forums/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=9542 |
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| Author: | TopherM [ Mon Mar 12, 2007 6:19 am ] |
| Post subject: | Singers who can not hear themselves in the monitor |
I had a singer Saturday night that has me puzzled. After her first song, she turns around and says to me "your microphones suck." I was perplexed by this because I have Shure SM58s and although some people have a preference for other types of mics, I have never heard anyone say that the Shure SM58s "suck." But I was really busy so I didn't ask her what she meant by that. The next time the same girl came up, though, I made it a point to ask her what it was about my mics that she didn't like, hoping that I could EQ something to her liking. Her responce (which shows you how much the typical singer knows) was "Your mics are horrible. I can't hear myself in the monitor speaker." Of course, I know that this has absolutely nothing to do with the mics and I told her as much (in a constructive way). I could hear her in the monitor just fine on her previous song, but since she was having problems, I then turned the music in the monitor down and her vocals up for her upcoming song. So, now the music is about 25% softer and her vocals are about 25% louder than the actual house mix, and to my ears it was overkill on the vocals, yet after the song she comes to me AGAIN complaining that she can't hear herself. This is about the 3rd singer over the years that has said this, and I suspect there are plenty more that had the same problem but didn't speak up. Now, I know for a fact that my monitor is positioned correctly, so my question is this: Do you other KJs find that there are some people show just can't hear themselves in the monitor no matter what you do? I was thinking maybe it is a physiological thing, like maybe their own voice reverberates in their ear canals to a point that it is always going to drown out an external monitor unless it is set to ridiculously improportionate levels? Like they hear the same kind of sound the rest of us would hear when we cover our ear to "hear ourselves," yet they hear this all the time. That is my best hypothosis, but I am perplexed, so I wanted to see if anyone else has any ideas!! |
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| Author: | billy d [ Mon Mar 12, 2007 7:25 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Singers who can not hear themselves in the monitor |
There are a lot of people who have hearing problems, and don't realise it. It could be just certain frequencies, those of which belong to the human voice are often the first to go. It doesn't happen to just older people, but with loud music, headphones, and certain ear and sinus infections, hearing loss doesn't age discriminate........drunk people sometimes have trouble hearing, or they just become oblivious to all sound.... 
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| Author: | exweedfarmer [ Mon Mar 12, 2007 7:32 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Singers who can not hear themselves in the monitor |
The problem is that she can hear but she just isn't listening. Listening to the mix while performing is a skill that has to be practiced. You might inform her of such which may cause her to bolt out the door. Good. If you want to keep this person, you might try increasing the effects on her vocals so that she can more easily discern the sound she is causing from the sounds she is making. As for me, I'd just bounce her. |
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| Author: | MorganLeFey [ Mon Mar 12, 2007 9:07 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Singers who can not hear themselves in the monitor |
what does bounce her mean? Its probably less about your mic and more about your mix. She is complaining cos she doesnt stand out from the music, sounds like she rates herself bigtime and she wants everyone to know |
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| Author: | Kellyoke [ Mon Mar 12, 2007 10:06 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Singers who can not hear themselves in the monitor |
Have some of the same here. Some singers "think" they have to be overpowering. I'll change the monitor to their liking but I will not change what goes out to the audience. If they're going to "sound" bad; they'll do it on their own. 
Saturday night though topped them all. Had a singer tell me to give him plenty of re verb so they wouldn't have to "strain" their voice.  I sarcastically told him he was the first person I ever met who could "sing" re verb.
Kelly
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| Author: | MorganLeFey [ Mon Mar 12, 2007 10:39 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Singers who can not hear themselves in the monitor |
too funny kelly. Mind you I am the reverb queen, it masks all the errors in my vocals 
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| Author: | Kellyoke [ Mon Mar 12, 2007 10:53 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Singers who can not hear themselves in the monitor |
What's really funny though is I have found that most people who complain and say they need this or that; if you just make it "look" like you adjusted something, they then after a minute turn to you and give you the "ok" signal like "Hey, that's perfect thanks!" It just goes to show you that several just don't know "how" to listen. Kelly |
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| Author: | Lonman [ Mon Mar 12, 2007 11:06 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Singers who can not hear themselves in the monitor |
Kellyoke @ Mon Mar 12, 2007 10:53 am wrote: What's really funny though is I have found that most people who complain and say they need this or that; if you just make it "look" like you adjusted something, they then after a minute turn to you and give you the "ok" signal like "Hey, that's perfect thanks!"
It just goes to show you that several just don't know "how" to listen. Kelly That's an old sound engineer trick. We would do it to (mostly) guitar players but on occasion the singers when running sound (but it still works in karaoke situations as well), they'd give they turn me up signal, you look & tap on a couple of knobs of their channel looking intently, look over for approval & 9 out of 10 times they'd give the nod 'good to go'. Even 'pros' or semi-pros don't know how to listen. |
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| Author: | twansenne [ Mon Mar 12, 2007 2:03 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Singers who can not hear themselves in the monitor |
TopherM @ Mon Mar 12, 2007 8:19 am wrote: Now, I know for a fact that my monitor is positioned correctly, so my question is this:
Do you other KJs find that there are some people show just can't hear themselves in the monitor no matter what you do? Yeah, and tat is why i try my BEST to setup the mains so I don't have to have monitors. I found with MY singers, and the occasional DIVA, it solves a lot of problems. Like others said, just pretend to play with the knobs, and they will think you did somthing. on a similar theme....I was hosting my Friday night gig, and sang the 2nd song myself. I forget which song it was, but it starts out quiet, and gets louder after about 1 minute. A guy from the bar come up after 45 seonds, and tells me it needs to be tured up, he turns around and walks for about 10'. then the music gets louder, and he turns around and gives me the THUBS UP, even though I never moved from the singer position to behind the board (about 15'). |
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| Author: | uptownekaraoke [ Mon Mar 12, 2007 3:25 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Singers who can not hear themselves in the monitor |
TopherM @ Mon Mar 12, 2007 7:19 am wrote: I had a singer Saturday night that has me puzzled. After her first song, she turns around and says to me "your microphones suck."
I know I'm new to this biz, but I would never stand for anyone disrespecting me or my equipment. Being somewhat of a smartass if someone said that to me I'm sure my response would of been, "I use professional mics, so something else must suck!" |
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| Author: | timberlea [ Mon Mar 12, 2007 6:09 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Singers who can not hear themselves in the monitor |
I know a few hosts that have professional equipment, and they suck. Equipment doesn't make good sound. The person on the board makes the good sound (with the exception of a singer). Is your sound good or bad? I wouldn't have a clue until I heard. Some hosts should listen to their singers, they could be right. It is arrogant of a host to poo poo a singer about the sound. Does that make a singer always right? Of course not, but there is nothing wrong by checking and even better a sound person to tell you. |
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| Author: | mckyj57 [ Mon Mar 12, 2007 8:04 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Singers who can not hear themselves in the monitor |
timberlea @ Mon Mar 12, 2007 9:09 pm wrote: I know a few hosts that have professional equipment, and they suck. Equipment doesn't make good sound. The person on the board makes the good sound (with the exception of a singer). Is your sound good or bad? I wouldn't have a clue until I heard. Some hosts should listen to their singers, they could be right. It is arrogant of a host to poo poo a singer about the sound. Does that make a singer always right? Of course not, but there is nothing wrong by checking and even better a sound person to tell you.
Thank you! I may be a beginner, but I do know when I can hear myself. It doesn't throw me off as much as it used to when I can't, but it makes a big difference to my singing if there is a monitor (or the mains equivalent) with some minimal reverb -- not too much. That would be my big complaint about working off the FOH; some hosts use what I think is too much effects. The nice thing about having specifically an SM-58 mic is the ubiquity means that I know exactly what it can do, and it is easy for me to adjust position based on what I hear. |
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| Author: | dbk1009 [ Tue Mar 13, 2007 12:20 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Singers who can not hear themselves in the monitor |
I keep the monitor on its' own channel of the amp, so it gets the full mix, but I can control it independantly. When I have a particularly 'sub-par' singer or just someont that can't hear themselves, I turn up the monitor till their hearts content- it doesn't effect the listening audience at all. |
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| Author: | ok What Now [ Tue Mar 13, 2007 6:16 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Singers who can not hear themselves in the monitor |
i may be reading this thread wrong but it seems to me that the k j's r patting themselves on the back thinking somehow they know more than the singers....in some cases yes, in some no way.... it seems ur making fun of ur singers and their lack of knowledge, i agree most don't know what's going on but to say....they're hearing but just not listening is a crock to me...JMO.... if u took a poll of all the kj's around i think u would find that MOST do not have the right monitors, or NO monitors at all....and on top of that i would say that the ones that have their monitors set to be controlled separate don't know how to run the p a they have.... sure they're some that know what they're doing, just like there are singers that know what they're hearing....u say u pretend to turn ur knobs and they say okkk, well when i ask for something if i hear no difference i just think he/she doesn't know what they're doing anyway...and keep quiet which leads you to believe i didn't know what i was doing r hearing.... i always ask for more monitor, my ears r shot from all the music coming from behind me while singing in a band... i have to deal with it....the kj might look at me like i'm nuts but i do know what i want and need and it's his job to give it to me the best he/she can....if ur any good at all... the whole point is to make the singer sound as best u can....if he feels he wants more verb....why not please him...if u have it set separate from the mains only he hears it anyway....so he's happy, ur happy.... i don't know how many places i have been that have little hot spots as monitors, house speakers sound great but when ur up there singing u have to push to get the song out, making ur voice work too much, that's what a mixer and an amp. is for....i should never have to yell, if i do either ur under powered r u don't know what ur doing.... r ur too cheap to care sooooo to jump on r make fun of the non pro singer is dead wrong....they're not getting paid...YOU ARE .....JMO |
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| Author: | MorganLeFey [ Tue Mar 13, 2007 6:20 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Singers who can not hear themselves in the monitor |
gotta agree with you Billy :wave: :worship: |
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| Author: | ok What Now [ Tue Mar 13, 2007 6:22 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Singers who can not hear themselves in the monitor |
ty u morgan....us little people have to stick together ...
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| Author: | MorganLeFey [ Tue Mar 13, 2007 6:24 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Singers who can not hear themselves in the monitor |
now wheres milo with that damned duet |
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| Author: | ok What Now [ Tue Mar 13, 2007 6:25 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Singers who can not hear themselves in the monitor |
she's here chew her butt out....if i told her once i told her a 1000 times pleaseeeeeee do that duet .....god i'm so dead...
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| Author: | MorganLeFey [ Tue Mar 13, 2007 6:27 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Singers who can not hear themselves in the monitor |
 LMAO LMAO I think you may be
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| Author: | ok What Now [ Tue Mar 13, 2007 6:28 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Singers who can not hear themselves in the monitor |
i hope she uses chains....
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