Karaoke Forums

i just entered a contest...prize being $5,000.   i know that most here are against contests of any kind, but to me this one is being run as fair as it can be, 3 judges, no singer is to talk to any judge.

u have 30 singers each week for 9 weeks, each week only 1 out of the 30 wins, plus 1 gets a wild card....end of the contest there are 9 winners, 9 wildcards.....of the wild cards they're thrown in a hat, 1 name is drawn out.....that person makes up the 10 winners.....

last night i entered the contest and i was 4th to sing, (sober judges)  as the night went on the judges got well let's say less sober...l...they were having fun....and as we all know the more u drink the better we sound....sooooooooo it seems at the end of the night everyone was getting standing ovations from the judges, as far as unfairness goes that would be the only place i could find it, but they're just being human.....and drunk... and yes i know the judges shouldn't be getting drumk...

at the end of the night they called up the top 10 scores and u guessed it...i wasn't in the top 10, i had sang Ray Charles.... Georgia.... i thought i did ok on it....

but to be fair, they had some great singers there, and i deserved  the place i got in the contest.....

i guess i'm writing this to say yes there r fair contests....as fair as can be anyway....

 Agreed.  Since judges have their individual aesthetic biases (their own taste), level of ability AND lack of ability, it's a subjective situation.  Meaning who wins a particular contest is "the best" only in terms of others opinions, but what sells one person over another individual can't be debated, or argued much of the time.. Sort've like who's an "8" vs who's a "10" in Singers Showcase... If I can't stand the music style, or the person singing, they likely won't be either, despite how well they perform, in so many cases EVEN if they LOOK like a person I can't stand chances are even THAT will slant my objectivity, either way, I either won't like them due to my own programming, or feel compelled to over-compensate and THAT would ruin my objectivity, so it's lose lose situation.....Since I'm only as affective a judge as my opinion allows me to be... Someone will get the prize, but they aren't "factually" the best in a contest.. It's based on peoples *opinions* only, how they feel, think, artform and style they like the most.. None of this is fact-based.  Is their ever TOTAL objectivity ?  I don't know, but if-so, I don't know how... That would require the judges have A LOT of set criteria they must substantiate in making a decision.  They'd need to be held accountable for their decisions.. That is never the case in an artistic (aesthetically based) performance such as these performances...  I don't know how Olympic or Multi-million dollar Sports activity Refs, Officials, and Judges of such events work either regarding this level of total accountability for their decision, they likely are never TOTALLY accountable, who'd take such a risk in their sane mind ?  After-all, So many love feeling like
the pro, or being "Judge", it's like playing house without the real accountability of having the real life ramifications of wrong decision making, being the boss, without the major headaches and hassles... But like a court-room judge,  these decisions are not always the correct decision... So agreed.... "As fair as they can be, considering the judges aren't PERFECT beings"..


There are different types of people.  Personally as a musician (artist) if I were asked to be a judge in a prestigious event that would flatter my ego being asked to be a judge, ASSUMING it were a genre of music I am not overly confident with, or style I didn't like I'd defer, like the person who doesn't qualify to sit on a jury due to bias, I'd disqualify myself out've fairness due to my love of the particular artform (music in this case)..  To begin with, a contest can only be as fair as the ability level and personality types of those judging allows for. Can these people be "swayed" because one vocalist has a nicer "skirt" and smiles at them flirtatiously ?  Sometimes yes, hopefully more than not no...


A performer can win based upon certain style and presentation too, not just musical ability, some have a "baffle them with bull" stage presence, and less skill during their performance...  An example of this is that there are "Professional test takers",  they test better than others, they've learned the tricks of the trade and how to fool the system... Like the performers with certain flair and presence, some in certain fields aren't the "smartest", or most qualified to perform a task, they just know how to take certain admission tests, yet they aren't smarter, or more "studious".  A male who's middle-aged might have a tougher chance of winning amidst a panel of certain judges... Similarly a white male yuppie looking guy such as myself would have a VERY tough time as a musician performing at "The Apollo".  Certain things just are and aren't.  Doesn't make not winning any easier, again yet another reason I HATE contests, and HATE losing.. I take it to heart... Even though intellectually I know I should not.

_________________
Northeast United States runner up for the "Singing Hall of Shame".

What can I say.
I have never ever seen a 100% fair contest.
What I have seen are contests judged by people not proficient enough to judge them.
And then there are audio reasons why a singer may not be on form.
There is a good reason why singers dont like contests.

Contests are simply a reason for customers to visit a venue and spend money.
Being an X Pub landlord, I can relate to that.

I ran a fair south island wide contest for 4 years. it was based on the english tv prog stars in your eyes. My husband and I toured the sth island every year to bring back contestants for the grand final. Judges were always competent and from out of the area.
We provided folk to ASSIST with makeup etc. the rest was up to the contestants and how much they wanted to buy into the whole process. The final was a sellout every year and the ultimate compliment I was paid was being phoned by TV who were putting on a similar show and being asked if I could provide them with names of contestants I felt they should contact regarding their show.
The only reason its not still going on is a large proportion of the people making the finals were also rans of previous years...that meant that sooner or later we would be scratching the bottom of the barrel.
But it was fun while it lasted, it was lucrative for the brewery and the licensing trust who sponsored it, and it was loved by the people who packed it out every year.
But I would rather leave them wanting more than run something into the ground

_________________
"Be who you are and say what you feel... Because those that matter... Don't mind...And those that mind... Don't matter."

Hi girl, going to get you some fly faster stripes.

My Sister did the very first Stars in their eyes epicode  on ITV
after first doing the pilot show. (chriss tarrent hosted)
Sis won the pilot. (have the video)
We knew who the winner was before the program was aired.
Actually a friend of ours. Did  Shirrly Bassey. Really well. Won it.

We only found out by accident...

Yea life is fair. NOT.

Its 5:25 am here. Thinking of giving up forums forever.

Morgan please dont take it the wrong way.
I really applaud what you have done.

When we run a big contest like that, it is fair.  Our judges are musically inclined such as vocal teachers, recording engineers/producers, radio personalities, local band members (karaoke friendly).  These people have nothing to do with any of the contestants or the bar, they are there to judge what they feel is the best singer/entertainer.  The only ones that never thinks it fair are the ones that don't win & think they are the greatest thing since sliced bread - in their own head.  Chances are the people you will lose doing a contest are the ones that are only IN for the contest in the first place.

_________________
LIKE Lonman on Facebook - Lonman Productions Karaoke & my main site via my profile!

Seems everything is perfect in your world,
and anyone other than a looser either
sheepishly agrees, or dosn't have an opinion.

Saying that, I will most certainly agree that local contests
are much fairer than media run contests.

Could Brittney Spears sing if she was ugly and flat chested?  No.  Which means that she actually can't sing now but no one notices.  Same thing with judges.  They are going to give the most credit to those who make an impression.  The woman with the shortest skirt, the only black guy in an all white field, the only man in an all female field (even I wouldn't pay attention to him) is going to have the same advantage.  As for judges being competent: I caught the tail end of American Idol the other night because it comes on right before "House," and this guy came in and said he was going to sing "Cupid."  then started out with "Another Saturday Night." and when he got to the chorus, he went into "Cupid." The judges didn't notice.  Maybe all Sam Cook songs are interchangeable, or maybe Simon & Co. don't really know their donkey from a hole in the ground.

Jerry hon there are some who think just becos they or their nearest and dearest dont win its not fair. That is called bias. It is people like that, that give contests a bad name. They rant and rave (bit like you are doing) without taking everything into consideration.
Do you offend me? nope, I take a bit to get offended. Will I stand for stupidity? nope again. You say something stupid I will either ignore you or call you on it

_________________
"Be who you are and say what you feel... Because those that matter... Don't mind...And those that mind... Don't matter."

Morgan, your last post really confused me.
You have picked up on a statement I made
and interpreted it the way you chose to.



Shirley Bassey, (who our friend did so well) unlike Brittany spears
has X Factor.
Our friend deserved to win.

My post is aimed at the politics of media run contests.



Would you please be so good as to point out where I rant and rave.

Jerry dont tell me you have ranted and vented so often you dont realise when you do? tsk tsk. Take a read back

Weedy c'mere n snog me  :hug:

_________________
"Be who you are and say what you feel... Because those that matter... Don't mind...And those that mind... Don't matter."

Sounds like a cop out...

No all I was getting at is the people that don't think contests are fair are generally the ones that don't win when they think in their own head that they should have or their friends & family think they should have.  Like Morgan said, these are the people that give contests a bad rep.  
If contests are so terrible, WHY do people keep flocking to them & entering them?

_________________
LIKE Lonman on Facebook - Lonman Productions Karaoke & my main site via my profile!

Often so they can complain. Everyone likes to be a critic.
I know you fully understand.


I still stand by what I said

I stil don't care....I have NEVER EVER SEEN A FAIR KARAOKE CONTEST.  I've seen contest with large prizes, small prizes, ones with many qualifiying rounds, ones run one night only.  It dosen't matter, no matter how large/smal/shor/log a contes is they CAN NOT be run fairly.

And even if you could get hte perfect conditions for a karaoke contest, such as Lon has typed about, there will be some that are upset about the outcome.

First:  No contest will be PERCEIVED by all, even if it could be.....

   Judges? Where did they come from.  Within 50 miles?  Then no, there will probably be some bias.

   Musically able to judge?  Probably not if they are volunteers  

   Paid professionals?  Betcha they weren't, and if they were, and getting drunk, how professional can the be?


   A NATIONAL radio station, sending out celebrity judges MAY be fair as far as bias, but then you have the musical  question again......

    Scoring?  Applause? Who's got the most friends?  Points?  Say, for voice and entertainment/presentation.  OK  I saw a contest final that had 6 people left.  5 of them stood there with their hands at their sides, didn't move, and sang beautifully. One sang pretty well but actually performed and entertained.  Out of 10 for voice I iwould have given him maybe a 5 compared to the others, all 8 or 9. But he was the ONLY ONE to get any points for entertainment so he blew them away. Yes, he won, the bar got a bunch of nasty letters, and they stopped karaoke.

   The answer is, no, you can't have a completely fair karaoke contest, which is why I don't do them.

_________________
"No Contests, No Divas, Just A Good Time!"

" Disc based and loving it..."

NEVER use applause as a judging criteria, it does turn out to be exactly as you described - he who brought the most friends in wins!

_________________
LIKE Lonman on Facebook - Lonman Productions Karaoke & my main site via my profile!

I was wanting to quote someone who posted about
American Idol, and their criteria.
For the life of me I cant find it.
Does anyone remember it enough
to point me to it.