Karaoke Forums

Imagine you dont have the gear that you do. Your just starting out.

Advertised on ebay

Computer laptop karaoke system.
8000 error free Sound Choice tracks transfered to Hard drive.
Although the discs in cases were stolen, I have all the disk receipts,
which will go to the buyer. Ill health forces sale.
No reserve.

Do you bid...

NO.

You don't have the discs.

THe seller could have all the receipts, and the discs, and just transfered them to a h-drive to sell to recoup some of the cost of purchasing the discs.

Yes. Fair coment.

Ok forget that sinario.
What do you do if your own disks get stolen.

File a claim with your insurance comapny. I had a 50 disc set stolen and they reimbursed them all at an estimated cost of 17.99 each.

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"You know that I sing the Blues and I do not suffer fools. When I'm on that silver mic, it's gonna cut ya, just like a knife"-The SWINGCAT

Again thats good.

Do all of you have all your gear insured.
Its actually very expensive over here.

wait a minute.  if he is going to send you the music with the receipts, why is there anything wrong with that?  yeah he COULD be trying to do something shady, but you COULD walk out of your house and get run over by a truck.  if he sells it and gives you the receipts for the discs, now you own the music.  I don't know how this works, but it sure doesn't seem as cut and dry as NO.  explain why this is such a cut and dry "no"?  he is the one going out on a limb if he gives you the music and the receipts.  if you are stopped by the karaoke police simply show the receipts and the bill of sale by guywhohaddiscsstolen.

He is not sending you the MUSIC (ie: CDs) that purchased (with the receipts as proof).  He is sending you COPIES of music.

And it also could be insurance fraud if he has already been re-imbursed by the insurnace company for his loss.

Yeah but i sorta agree with hamsamich, If you have the reciepts he basically is giving up his ownership rights in sort a way. Guess it depends how u look at it. And the insurance fraud wouldn't be on you, it would be on him.

Ya know i see alot of questions of legal talk in this forum, Alot of lawyers offices are available for free advice over the phone (of course they want something to happen so that get paid) u can always call and ask what they think of the situation, just say your in a legal issue with another party, make something up..!!!

just a thought

Yes, his ownership of the CDs not the COPIES of the CDs.

Heck I can give you a reciept for the Brooklyn Bridge but that doesn't mean I ever owned it.  In this case the receipt is meaningless without the discs.  Under the current law, even if you do have a "receipt", the harddrive is illegal.  It is an illegal, unauthourized, or whatever you want to call it, copy.

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You can be strange but not a stranger

And to go a bit further, if you were using the hard drive for personal use, you have a better stance than if it were for comercial use.  Using ripped music for commercial use is still illegal.  Yeah a stupid law, that needs to be changed.

i was under the impression from the music industry that you weren't buying just the music, you are also buying a licsense for said music, which means to me if your discs deteriorate you should still own a lic. to the music.  so here is a situation where you don't own a working copy with the music on them, since the discs don't work, but to me if i still had those songs on my computer or have a friend who can give them to me, it is all perfectly legal.

if the Kara-po-po pulled me over and gave me a ticket and I had to go to court with the receipts and the statements from this particular seller and no cds, what would a jury say?

yes you could give me a receipt to the brooklyn bridge.  I could also sell bootlegged copies of music that look like they are the real thing.  but that wouldn't be ok either.  I don't think some people are getting my point.  what would a court of law say about  this, and what is morally right here?  I can give you my opinion all day about whether this is right or wrong and make it sound black and white, but this particular issue doesn't sound cut and dry to me.  does anyone know the real answer with real life data to back it up?   If you are giving me your opinion, say so, or if you have real data to back it up, I'd appreciate that as well.  qualify something here, things still seem out of whack.  where is lonman when I need him, he cut thru all the BS and my lack of knowledge last time and showed me the way.  LONMAN!!!  i'll send out the bat- errrrr.. lon-signal


na na na na na na na, LONMAN!

You would be buying illegally format-shifted(copied) copies of EACH INDIVUAL SONG on the laptop. So multiply the fine for copyright infringement and unliscenced reproduction for EACH and EVERY tune on the laptop and that ought to give u some idea of you LIABILITY. Unless he has paid for mechanical, mastering and video reproduction liscenses (Which HE is not legally able to sell to someone else anyway) then they are illegal unliascned copys.

I dont know exactly how much the fine is for one tune--some one help out???

But in any event you would be buying an illegal copy of EACH tune....regardless if you had the originals too.

It has NOTHING to do with being moral or not. It has everything to do with copyright infringemnt and illegal unliscensed reproduction.

Do yourself a favor and drop this one like the plague. Go the conventional route nd build yourself a legal collection of discs.....the old fashioned way.

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"You know that I sing the Blues and I do not suffer fools. When I'm on that silver mic, it's gonna cut ya, just like a knife"-The SWINGCAT

we had a thread on here a month back...

$250,000 and a six month jail sentence for PLAYING a digital copy, irregardless if you own the disc or not. They are placing all commercial venues that have  computer jocks under this sentence.

It's why I retired. I could go back to using the discs, but it's not worth it to risk losing or damaging my irreplacable discs...

Jim, you don't need Lonman, you have already been given the best advice

Yeah, some poster told us a month ago about the fine/penalty he/she said exists on the books for format shifting.  The same poster scolded several of us regarding copyright related issues.  Same poster talked about punishments that have already been meted out to KJ's infringing on copyrights, though he/she was unable to site a specific court case.  

Same poster never contributed much of anything else to this forum.  Hmmmmmm?????

I think the senerio above is the EXACT reason why there is a law against changing CDG formats to digital media

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C Mc
KJ, FL

just trying to seperate into 3 catagories that seem to meld together alot.  moral, law, reality.  and, a sub-cat would be what a jury would do (maybe the "ought to be" catagory).

for instance, speeding is against the law, but everyone does it.  the law is you just can't do it. reality seems to be you can go 5-10 miles an hour over without getting a ticket.  moral values would say if you scream at 50 mph thru a residential zone, bad juju.  

i know most KJs put digital material on their computers, even though this is against the law, but this seems to be reality, and i don't see much wrong with it, except for  the slippery slope this activity offers, which isn't usually a crime in a place like the USA.  When I'm watching "Women's Penitentiary 9" or "Lockdown" on the national geographic channel, people in the cells aren't wallowing about being put in there for 6 months amongst the murderers because the karaoke po po nabbed them.  I'm really not trying to be disrespectful here, I'm trying to figure this out.

It seems whenever I am trying to figure out something new, there are always 3 camps: realistic people, extremists on one side, and extremists on the other side, just like when Lonman and others helped me find the right system for me.  I still feel as if I don't know what is up here, and I'd appreciate more real world feedback.  Thanks to all who have added there .02$.

Anyone can print up receipts with a form maker & printer.  Doesn't mean they are legal, no discs with the hard drive - not legal - bottom line, receipts or not.  Wonder how many times his auction goes up with the same wording, i'd be curious.  He's 'more than likely' trying to make his illegal sale sound more legit to the unaware buyers that don't know any better.

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LIKE Lonman on Facebook - Lonman Productions Karaoke & my main site via my profile!

Exactly.

My followup was going to be...

3 months later you see the exact same advert on ebay.

i agree that this is probably illegal, but if all the guy selling the music says were true, would it be considered legit if there was no law stating you cannot use copied material for profit (even if you own it)?  this topic would be dead and 50% of KJs (not sure about this #, just guessing) would be out of business if people didn't use copied material THEY REALLY OWN on their harddrive.  to me it seems this whole thing is a quagmire worse than Anna Nicole Smith's legal legacy, because the laws seem to be somewhat unfair (can't use your own copied material).  what ought to be is not even close in my opinion.  the last 5 times I've been at karaoke I didn't see any of the KJs changing discs, and this shouldn't be a problem.  

I'm sure this topic has been beat to death, thanks for bearing with me.  i have read some of the other posts though.  i wish things would change.