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| Milo https://mail.karaokescene.net/forums/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=9412 |
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| Author: | Steven Kaplan [ Fri Feb 09, 2007 11:35 am ] |
| Post subject: | Milo |
Hey Jeanne, Yep, Just so you know.. about 4 years ago I heard a female singer perform the Carpenters song "It's going to take some time this time" which Karen Carpenter does in the key of C.. This particular singer in hopes of achieving warmth wished to transpose the song down to A (Karaoke backing). It couldn't be done, at that tempo DESPITE this womans gorgeous warm voice, the song just sounded dead, it really became noticeable that she was forced to hang onto phrases Karen Carpenter was able to tastefully release at her actual tempo.. Think about it, certain songs can't really be slowed down TOO much... In doing this Ode to Billy Joe, Honey, etc...are no longer sad, they are falling asleep.. |
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| Author: | Cantstopsinging [ Fri Feb 09, 2007 1:58 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Milo |
I am curious as to why one would want to slow down or transpose the key lower to any Carpenters song? Lowering the key doesn't guarantee warmth, imo. Having a feel for the lyrics and th song itself is more of a factor.. Was this woman a super smoker? I ask because Carpenter's lows being as they are , it would take a female chain smoker to get to them. |
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| Author: | milo [ Fri Feb 09, 2007 5:42 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Milo |
when i sang 'bless the beasts' i lowered the song 'cos it just felt more 'comfortable' on my voice  ll...i didn't even think about the tempo being slowed down that muchi haven't heard the song for many years! i'll listen to the original this time...
billy said he thinks he can lower the song in sound forge without slowing it down....do you think that will make a difference or should i just go ahead and try it in the original key again? i just don't wanna sound all 'fishwifey' as morgan says... 
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| Author: | Odie [ Fri Feb 09, 2007 6:35 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Milo |
On a technical note, you can use WinAmp and the Pacemaker plugin to play an MP3/karaoke file. With Pacemaker, the pitch can be changed without altering the tempo. Also, the tempo can be changed without altering the pitch. |
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| Author: | Steven Kaplan [ Fri Feb 09, 2007 6:46 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Milo |
Hey Jeanne and Joyce, First off, Jeanne, yes, ... I was going to ask one of the more techy folks about a pitch transposer that enables one to lower pitch w/o affecting song tempo. Such devices exist for guitar and instruments, but I haven't a clue about software, there was something that was share, BUT, I haven't a clue about how it works..
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Joyce, Here's the answer to your question. I have experienced this firsthand accompanying vocalists on this type ballad. This is why a vocalist will have probs in some instances with a few of the Carpenter songs in original Key... Let's take *THIS* particular song for instance... Song starts in key of Ab. (The following two verses all sung within the Ab chord octave) (ALSO, pay attention to just HOW long even at this original tempo Karen Carpenter must hang onto the words VOICE, and CHOICE... Those are long notes to hold as is) First verse: -sung within key signature of Ab- Quote: Bless the beast and the children For in this world they have no -voice~~~~~~~ they have no -choice~~~~~~~ Same with the second verse same key... -sung within range of Ab key sig- Quote: Bless the beast and the children -------> (enters modulation while holding word "say") -F chord-for the world can never be the world they say Now the Carpenters modulate up to a key a 4th higher at the bridge by introducing first that F chord while she hangs onto the word -Say-, but the chorus is sung in a key she modulates up to which is now Db., so not only is this a higher vocal range, but this is where she sings strongest as well (at the bridge) (Bridge sung Forte' and modulated from key of Ab up to Db) -Key of Db- Forte'- Quote: Light their way when the darkness surrounds them
give them love let it shine all around them Milo would have to feel comfortable singing not just down to the Gb lowest note, but also the bridge which is higher and stronger.. Carpenter I think spans Gb to the Ab (10 notes above) and all notes are clear. This isn't confined to a narrow range, and since it's slow, ALL notes must be VERY accurate, tougher song than many might think.. As you know, the Carpenters were known for being masters of modulating key in fact that's a signature trait of theirs ! My own feeling is this is an interesting technique for story telling. You are taking the listener on sort've a musical trip, otherwise the song might be considered too bland, even boring. Another interesting story that used such modulation was Harry Chapin's Taxi.... He achieved change in emotion by modulating the key during his story. Many do this in ballad actually, because when done tastefully, it captures listener attention. Interesting psychological method used when you think about it... Richard Carpenter was brilliant |
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| Author: | ok What Now [ Fri Feb 09, 2007 7:23 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Milo |
i completely disagree yet also agree with everything said above and none of what was said below, except that 1 part......i couldn't have said it better r worse....but that's JMO |
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| Author: | Steven Kaplan [ Fri Feb 09, 2007 7:59 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Milo |
I said that exact same thing, but different ! |
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| Author: | Steven Kaplan [ Fri Feb 09, 2007 8:15 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Milo |
If Milo can sing this at regular tempo it'll be gorgeous, and expression will be much more easily heard just based on the faster tempo, and her not having to drag out note after note... Those are long notes when slow, every note is super critical in such a song, EVERYTHING is heard.. There's little to no margin for weak spots here IMHO.. ! That's pretty much what I believe Billy was implying ! |
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| Author: | Cantstopsinging [ Sat Feb 10, 2007 8:50 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Milo |
milo @ Fri Feb 09, 2007 wrote: when i sang 'bless the beasts' i lowered the song 'cos it just felt more 'comfortable' on my voice
ll...i didn't even think about the tempo being slowed down that muchi haven't heard the song for many years! i'll listen to the original this time...billy said he thinks he can lower the song in sound forge without slowing it down....do you think that will make a difference or should i just go ahead and try it in the original key again? i just don't wanna sound all 'fishwifey' as morgan says... Jeanne, I think you'll sound just fine with it in the original key..Doesn't hurt to try.. I remember when you sang Karen Carpenter songs before.. Did you change the key in anyway? |
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| Author: | Charmin_Gibson [ Sat Feb 10, 2007 9:26 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Milo |
Milo..... go check your PM sista:) . |
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| Author: | Odie [ Sat Feb 10, 2007 5:33 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Milo |
OK, just out of curiosity I "took the pulse rate" of the original Carpenter's version and Milo's version. Original - 85 bpm Milo's - 80 bpm. |
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| Author: | milo [ Sat Feb 10, 2007 6:16 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Milo |
BlueStainedShoes @ Sat Feb 10, 2007 1:56 pm wrote: Milo..... go check your PM sista:)
. ...right back at ya sista! 
hi don  ....i checked my settings this morning and the tempo was NOT changed....so i suppose the karaoke backing is slower than the original...sooooooo
....not my fault.... 
....my pulse rate while singing that song was 55 bpm...probably the average of anyone listening to it also.... 
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| Author: | MorganLeFey [ Sat Feb 10, 2007 6:21 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Milo |
only just at recussitation (spell check aisle 5!!) level then :whistle: |
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| Author: | milo [ Sat Feb 10, 2007 6:28 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Milo |
....hmmmmmmmm.....maybe dr. McDreamy or dr. McSteamy can help me out there....(sorry, just finished watching grey's anatomy....  )
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| Author: | Odie [ Sat Feb 10, 2007 9:43 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Milo |
milo @ Sat Feb 10, 2007 6:16 pm wrote: BlueStainedShoes @ Sat Feb 10, 2007 1:56 pm wrote: Milo..... go check your PM sista:) . ...right back at ya sista! hi don ....i checked my settings this morning and the tempo was NOT changed....so i suppose the karaoke backing is slower than the original...sooooooo....not my fault.... ....my pulse rate while singing that song was 55 bpm...probably the average of anyone listening to it also.... Hi ya Milo! :wave: I figured that whatever program you used to change the key of the song would not be changing the tempo. Most programs are good about that these days. The karaoke backing was probably just performed at a slightly slower tempo. And wow, 55 bpm resting heart rate is great! :) |
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| Author: | Steven Kaplan [ Sat Feb 10, 2007 11:11 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Milo |
Quote: my pulse rate while singing that song was 55 bpm...
You are in amazing condition. Mine seldom falls below 85. Tachycardia. Whoever the supposed supreme "creator" is has a sick SOH, and gave me the vitals of a gerbil. (time to go shred some paper and catch a few Zz's) |
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| Author: | MorganLeFey [ Sun Feb 11, 2007 3:13 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Milo |
well heck Kappy we keep having more in common
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| Author: | MorganLeFey [ Sun Feb 11, 2007 3:50 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Milo |
Milo the duet is now finished. For the full inside scoop please check myspace bulletin board. I will post the duet as soon as the subs I have up currently fall off the front page. So please everyone help me out and get subbing cos I cannot wait to sub this. This guy is just amazing to work with |
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