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I want to project the singer's performance over to the opposite bar/pool table area.
They cannot see so easily over there and with the TV screen as a performance broadcast platform, they can feel a bigger part of the show without moving from their chairs.

I wanted to use the wifes Sony camera  :no: So I have to look elsewhere. $$ is short, so what's the best way?  Eventually when I get computerized, CompuHost allows the performer screen to have the background be whatever you desire. I was gonna throw in some quality photos of the bar/St. Louis sports teams/etc.  I plan on having an A/B switch for either singer perfomance "LIVE" or the songs lyrics w/select background photos. It also allows scrolling messages along the bottom, with blinking messages at the center...great program!

I don't want to go out and buy a camera for $50-100 just to do this, my choices should be easier. Any electronic gurus out there with an idea?

Thanks for the responses...

                                                                                      bigjim56

You don't currently have any cam type device, short circuit camera setup, cabling to do that ?  For 50-100 dollars makeshift device ? ALL I can think of is an old camcorder that you are willing to risk breaking, mount it, and get a really long RCA A/V cable (Yellow-Red-White) type, that you can run up into the ceiling somehow and down to the television.  Even a LONG cable like that will likely run you a few bucks alone depending on how far the distance is. You also don't currently have a computer you work with ?  Can't imagine a "cheap" way to do this.

If you don't wish to spend even $50, I can't imagine how you can even get a decent camera let alone anything like a wireless system and lengths of proper cable will easily run you above your willing to spend bracket.
Probably a mounted closed-circuit camera setup. Unless the bar TV's are all interfaced. You then have cheaper options if there's a set close-by. Still, without a computer you need a cam device, and cable.. That's $$$.. You'd need to hook a computer or cam device using the far TV as a monitor.. obviously A cheap "blow out" type Pen Cam/Digital camera such as Aipteks which can be tough to interface with just a computer alone, can run via computer (with streaming cam)---->nearby television with inputs (assuming you have an S-Video composite cable) and proper computer ports.. but you don't have such an option without a computer..

 Even that type cable for 20 feet will easily run you about fifty dollars (from what I've seen)...  For your price range, I can't think of anything that will transmit an AV signal much of a distance, and you do or do not currently have a video device ?  You don't want cheap anything...

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Northeast United States runner up for the "Singing Hall of Shame".

Baghdad Bob (little pup) - I think I hear your mama calling ya.          

Steven Kaplan - I have the wifes Sony, but I'd rather not use that, the life of it would decrease drastically. I have ALL the cable necessary. I just thought in this day and age that with the video cams/computer cams etc. there was something inexpensive to use for video monitoring. Projecting the video from the singer side to the pool table/bar side. I do have an old Panasonic video cam that shot craps a couple years ago (reason for Sony), I may try to revitalize it on my night shift coming up.

If worst comes to worst, I could just go by a pawn shop and pick up a reliable used camera. It's an idea in the works.

Thanks,

                                                                                     bigjim56

Assuming you had a webcam, and a notebook with an S-video out, long enough composite cable S-video---> TV input S-video assuming the set has that input... Or computer S-video out--->converter---->RCA cable into TV female plugs R-W-Y seems a possibility,  either that are a long enough S-Video--> RCA (composite) cable (but those can be somewhat costly), that's an affordable option.  Also just your older cam-corder out via 3 plug RCA-------->TV input..  Still you'd need to run cable up into the ceiling or staple it in such a way that it'd be out've the way..  Mount camcorder on wall... run cable up..Something improv such as that ? Put TV on video setting and it should work.

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Northeast United States runner up for the "Singing Hall of Shame".

That's funny......     I hear the words "I'm going under."  :O  :shock:



I say that from the voice of experience.     Take your information from the people that are making it happen......


I haven't seen one question about doing quality karaoke.    It has been everything but.     It's like you want to take an EZ way around the block.     THE KARAOKE WILL MAKE YOU ALL THE MONEY.    Not hocus pocus.

only real problem with a webcam is picture will be very "jittery" and not sure how good the pic quality would be.  i think the best way to do it is like kappy said.  use an old camera that you don't mind if it gets smokey and well-used.  to secure it, you can strap it to the ceiling using plumber's tape or something like that so it will be out of the way.  you will need alot of cabling though to run the npicture to the other side of the bar.  
contrary to what others have said, i like the idea.  i have the same situation in my venue....karoake is separated from the other parts of the bar.  bar is actually divided in to quadrants.  as it is now, i get lots of folks that poke their heads in to check it out, but there's not always room for them to hang out.  having a way for them to be in on the actino without actually being in the room would be a good thing.

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All work and no play make Homer something something

FInd a cheap video camera at a garage sale or pawn shop.  COnvert the video out of the camera to COAXIAL cable probably with an RF modulator, and run a cable to the TV.

I had an video camera back from the days (early 80's) where it hooked to a portable VCR to do the recording.  IT had a GREAT picture, but I went on vacation and left it on for 2 weeks by accident, and needless to say it didn't work when I returned home.  I guess leaving it on on a static sceen burnt it up.

I have seen similar video cameras at pawn shops/garage sales for $25.

Find yourself an old video camera at a pawn shop--doenst have to be fancy just some thing NOT DIGITAL like a Sony 8mm handycam and then hook up to the TV's RCA jack or use a RF Modulator if needed. You may also need a video booster amp if the cable run is quite long.

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"You know that I sing the Blues and I do not suffer fools. When I'm on that silver mic, it's gonna cut ya, just like a knife"-The SWINGCAT

You can buy a video camera with a broken taping cartridge on Ebay for under $50. There are usually 20-30 such listings at a time. These cameras still work fine optically and will send a perfect video-out signal, they just won't record anything. Once you get one of these, you can then purchase one of those leap-frog type wireless video units, which will wirelessly send the audio and video feeds from the camera to your other TV. These units cost $69-150. If you want to do it even more on the cheap, why not just buy a few 50-100 ft. RCA cables and feed the audio/video directly from the camera to the other TV. I assume you can run these wires above the bar ceiling from one point to the other. That will only cost you about $40-70 total ($20-40 for the camera, $20-30 for the wires).

That's what I would do!!

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C Mc
KJ, FL

It looks like the pawn shop/ebay idea will be what I go with. I frequently buy stuff from ebay, so thats not a big deal to shop there. I'll keep my eyes open the next few weeks. Just bought CompuHost and a Dekstop PC, got a lot of ripping to do the next few weeks, so I'll be busy with that. Thanks Twansenne.

xx - Thanks for seeing my view. Thats similar to how our bar is set up. The bar seperates the 2 sides and a wall goes 3/4 to the end. People on the other side are constantly looking around to see whats happening over on the KJ side. Putting the TV signal over there involves them in the show more and improves crowd participation. I want to use an A/B switch to be able to go from lyrics screen to live singer performance at the flip of the switch. I'm using CompuHost as my hoster program, it allows on screen scrolling of next performer, advertising options, background changing, flashing messages etc. These can all be beneficial to my show. Just got to get them up and going. I got hundreds of ideas, too little $$$ and not enough time.

Thanks,

                                                                         bigjim56

Anthony,


    Just curious.  What would be the difference in A/V quality running coax to RV converter as opposed to standard three female RCA plugs on camcorder-----> RCA A/V cable (Yellow for video added to the standard RCA phono cable)-----> three television inputs ?    Reason I'm wondering is based upon his wish to keep cost down.
Not sure how much more this might add to used cost of camcorder, however my own feeling would be he's better off buying an analogue camcorder closeout, or discont'd inventory blow-out) from a company such as B&H, J&R, or Ritz camera new, than buying used A/V equipment on a venue such as Ebay UNLESS of course he really knows the seller, and doesn't get hit for costly S&H...

JMO..


The NY electronic/camera shops are very reasonable S&H.  Often which is free for minimal expense... IE... Circuit City,  etc.  This way he gets POMG of some warantee and return and vulnerable items

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Northeast United States runner up for the "Singing Hall of Shame".

Quite honestly Bigjim,  Assuming all you need is an old analogue camcorder that has a broken taping section..Why not go to a local electronics repair shop,  see if a guy has an old junker laying around in back that wasn't worth fixing, but the owner also decided against paying the cost of the repair so just left it for junk..Just something he interited from a repair graveyard...  Likely you can get that for cheap too... Reason being,  Ebay S&H will likely be around the cost of a junky camcorder too... You can save a few bucks this way... Or a local bargain news,  recycler, camera shop, etc.  I wouldn't pay the Ebay S&H on a junker if you don't have to.

JMO...  Hit a repair shop and ask the tech

I recently purchased two antiquated VCR's new <left over inventory> and payed very little S&H from the site that's known for LOW S&H... Assuming I bought those on Ebay, PERHAPS I'd save a few bucks, but the S&H would be much more... There are also online sites you can check.... XPBargains,  Overstock (dot com).. These sites often offer free shipping or two dollar shipping, etc...

Just working on the concept of "saving money where possible" since your heading reads "Most ECONOMICAL way"



Disclaimer: Although I am answering this question directly.  I do not wish to imply any disrespect to my friend Bigdogs concerns regarding Karaoke quality diminishing, concerns regarding the lowering of the bar regarding standards over time, etc...The debate regarding compromise of quality pro/con etc. I'm not trying to encourage or discourage anything... Just directly answering the OP's question keeping all other issues separate. I don't wish to appear as though I am minimizing certain concerns

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Northeast United States runner up for the "Singing Hall of Shame".

as far as the sound ...you can buy a BOSE L1 system it fill's the room with sound..I use one for my act. the volume is the same anywhere you are in the bar.
Just a thought

Oh yea sams club has security cameras for $40.00 that are tiny  
or go to X10.com and get a wireless set up...transmitter and camera for under $100.00 I have 4 of them.

My suggestion is to avoid webcam for your broadcast video signal. Most webcams are at 320x240 or at best 640x480 resolutions. They look on computer screen with small window but look terrible on TV screen because their CCD doesn't take well to low lighting. Unless you have plenty of lights on your stage area, better camera will give much better results. If you have dark area, make sure your camcorder (which is what I recommend like others have said, you can pick one up cheap now days) low lux number. Lux is the measurement of light intensity. Many camcorders have 1 lux rating, which is good when you have low lighting. If your camera doesn't work well in dark, you will start to lose details and frames as you display them.

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Seize the day and SING!!!

Excellent point Eben.  I forgot all about that.   Whenever I take snapshots of my face using the camball, they come out looking as if my head is someplace where the sun don't shine  LOL ..   Nah seriously,  I do need at least daylight conditions or A LOT of bright lighting positioned strategically for webcam apps. Bars aren't known for their floodlighting conditions, and photogenic backdrops .. It wouldn't work well without floodlighting as well


<come to think of it,  I'm afraid I sent the wrong group of Cam-shots to the relatives as Christmas gifts>  :(

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Northeast United States runner up for the "Singing Hall of Shame".

eben - yeah, kinda thought the webcam would be of too low a quality for use. That's too bad. I like Steve's idea of the electronic repair store. I'm sure there's some non-working video cams out there loading up the shelves. Just buy it for the video cam and never use the rest of it for anything. I got an old Panasonic that is'nt working, may try to breathe life into it first. If that's not successful, I'll make some calls to the electronic repair stores and go from there. The repair store allows to buy locally and save on shipping.

Thanks for the replies,      :)

                                                                          bigjim56

You can find them at Pawn Shops or used electronics shops. I found mine for $20.00 at a store we have in Portland called "STUFF". A perfectly working Sony 8mm color minicam that the recorder didnt work--but the video and focus were EXCELLENT. Came with camera bag, batterys and charger. Complete set. Hooked it right up and bingo----KAROKE SINGERS AND DANCING on ALL 7 TV's in the bar!

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"You know that I sing the Blues and I do not suffer fools. When I'm on that silver mic, it's gonna cut ya, just like a knife"-The SWINGCAT

Swingcat Kurt, damn, thats a great deal you ran across, will have to try that myself! The one signal goes to 7 sets? Why are we struggling to get our PC's to show the signals to more that one or two sets, while a video cam can do it easily to 7 sets? I'm stumped on that one.

I could use it for up to 4 sets...one a bigscreen, that would really improve the bars KJ atmosphere. But I do wanna be able to switch to lyrics etc. at the flip of the A/B switch. That may limit my abilities there. The PC will be providing the lyrics screen, may have to provide it to a few choice sets. There's probably signal booster boxes out there, but that's  way down the line. Got too much going on now.

Thanks,

                                                                    bigjim56

We actuall had a setup where the graphics were projected othe wall on one side of the stage 10x20 and a ceiling mount camera pjojected on the other side. The video sucked because in those days they needed alot of lighting..  Any camera will work with a raw video output There are 2 ways to distribute to several tv's.. One way is with a video DA (distribution amp) They are expensive video  or run into an RF converter and use a c0-ax splitter You can run 2 or 3 tvs with this Beyond that you need a RF da which isnt cheap either...

In the tv studio we would run the video to a floor monitor to adjust the cameras It does take RG49AU co-ax cable but you can also run directly to the monitor Commercial monitors have an isolation amp and a loop thru to run additional montors The crazy part about it is I can bulid the da's for about $2 a stage for audio or video... Rf is a little more complicated...

The only drawback to video recording or problem I should say is lighting But I am more paticular with video than I am with audio... That comes from years as a CE in small tv stations..

EDIT Just for kicks I tried this one time and actually ran video and monitor audio to the stage It would have drops if somebody walked between the antennas One could put them ceiling height Its something I carry around and I ever need it I can run video to a big screen on the other side of a lounge...

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