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Newbie needs a little help.
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Author:  jondl [ Sat Nov 11, 2006 1:04 am ]
Post subject:  Newbie needs a little help.
I've been roaming around the AVS forums for a while and just got a HT system for the family.  My parents are into Karaoke and have spent lots of money of DVDs and such.  Anyway, heres our setup:

Ascend 340SE LCR
Ascend HTM-200 Surrounds
HSU VTF-3 MKII

Oppo 971 DVD Player
Harman Kardon 635 Receiver

We have these two components that my dad's friend bought for us from a 'white van' dealer that won't have any meaning since they are POS.  1 being an amp with 'karaoke mixer' built in.  The other is just a mixer alone.

Anyway, my question is what do i need to purchase in order to have good sounding karaoke for the parents?  I tried hooking up the mixer alone and it just sounded horrible.  I also had to turn the volume REALLY high in order to actually hear the microphones and music.  Also, when singing at high volumes, the speakers start to distort which made me think i may need a pro amp connected to the hk 635 receiver.  

Anyone with experience have any advice?  I'm looking to only spend about $300 at this time.  If i MUST spend more, please let me know.  As of right now, i'm thinking about getting a used Crown XLS 402 or a QSC amp.  Any suggestions on a good cheap amp would also be great.  I just need a 2ch amp to hook up to my mains to maybe get rid of the distortion.  Thanks in advanced!

-Jon
Author:  gahmc [ Sat Nov 11, 2006 1:21 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Newbie needs a little help.
I haven't a clue what you're talking about as far as what you already have.  But the problem you're describing does sound like you need an amp. QSC is a good amp, I use it personally for my karaoke shows; have had it for over a year and couldn't be happier with it. Though if I was you, I'd wait around to get advise on this from Lonman and a couple others who have been on here for awhile.  They're very helpful and have never steered me wrong.

(By the way, welcome to the forum)
Author:  jondl [ Sat Nov 11, 2006 1:28 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Newbie needs a little help.
Thanks for the quick reply and the welcome.  I guess my question wasn't too clear.  I don't know what to purchase so that i can plug the mics into my receiver and karaoke.  Are there any particular good ones?  My parents are pretty serious about karaoke but aren't fans of the hardware.  So, i'll be setting up most of everything and wish for it to be not too complicated for them to operate.

In addition, i know this isn't an a/v forum but does anyone have any recommendations for an amp as well?  I don't want to buy an amp and find out that my speakers are too strong or too weak to use it.  I believe the ascends are 8 ohm speakers.
Author:  gahmc [ Sat Nov 11, 2006 1:39 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Newbie needs a little help.
No, it may not be your question, I'm just not familier with the equipment you are mentioning. By reciever, are you talking about a radio type thing?  Most basic karaoke setups (professional basic, anyway) have a player, mixer, amp & speakers.

The 2 amps you referred to in your original post are good ones, I've just only had experience with the QSC.

Also, I don't know how available dvd karaoke disks are....so you may need something else there, but don't hold that as gospel. There are more knowledgable people on here who can answer that one.
Author:  Lonman [ Sat Nov 11, 2006 2:19 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Newbie needs a little help.
First off karaoke going through a home stereo receiver & home stereo speakers isn't recommended - they are designed for music/home theatre reproduction, not live music which karaoke has live vocals - you will run the risk of blowing the speakers & quite possibly the amp, especially at higher volumes & and stronger vocal passages.  You would be much better off letting the stereo do what it's designed to do & get a small PA system for strictly karaoke.  If this is an option for you, then we can elaborate more.
Author:  jondl [ Sat Nov 11, 2006 2:25 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Newbie needs a little help.
So, there would be no way for me to use my speakers that i have right now?  I would have to purchase a different set..?  Previously we were using a pair of R50s and the white van amp.  What are my options?  Thanks.

-Jon
Author:  Lonman [ Sat Nov 11, 2006 2:33 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Newbie needs a little help.
jondl @ Sat Nov 11, 2006 2:25 am wrote:
So, there would be no way for me to use my speakers that i have right now?  I would have to purchase a different set..?  Previously we were using a pair of R50s and the white van amp.  What are my options?  Thanks.

-Jon


Well you could use them, again, they aren't designed to reproduce live vocals.  Home stereo/theater speakers are voiced completely different than speaker designed for PA use.  Which is the main reason why they sounded horrible to you & crackled in high vocal output - they are probably KILLER HT speakers, but that's what they are strictly designed for.

What is the model karaoke amp & mixer that you have - we can start from there.
Author:  jondl [ Sat Nov 11, 2006 2:37 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Newbie needs a little help.
The amp+mixer is a Dtech Voice D-5000k and the mixer is a VocoPro DA-2000k.
Author:  Lonman [ Sat Nov 11, 2006 2:47 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Newbie needs a little help.
jondl @ Sat Nov 11, 2006 2:37 am wrote:
The amp+mixer is a Dtech Voice D-5000k and the mixer is a VocoPro DA-2000k.


You sure on the VocoPro?  I can't find any info on that model, they have DA-2080K
http://vocopro.com/p_disc.html#da-2080k
http://vocopro.com/search.html

Never heard of D-Tech, although I seem to recall someone mentioning that brand before as a VocoPro short lived line.  Can't find any info on it as well.
Author:  jondl [ Sat Nov 11, 2006 3:03 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Newbie needs a little help.
Yup. I just checked right now.  I don't know if this is weird but the back of the Vocopro mixer doesn't have any SN or model # on the back.  It only states it on the front of the unit which makes me believe its a knock off but i may be wrong.

I have tried searching up any kind of information on both units but nothing came up either.
Author:  Lonman [ Sat Nov 11, 2006 9:53 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Newbie needs a little help.
Yeah because the one link above is VocoPros entire line of products current & discontinued & that one isn't on there.  Now i'm not keen on VP products to begin with, but I would hate to see someone get ripped off with a crappy knockoff of a not so quality product in the first place.
And the D-Tech, a quick forum search & someone did bring up that name before, but it was for a small pair of 'karaoke' speakers - and most know here if it has to SAY it's for karaoke, it probably isn't that great to begin with & overpriced, underpowered.  

With what you got, you can take a chance & get some PA speakers for the mixer/amp, or get a good amp & PA speakers for the mixer.  You may want some kind of eq device on either, a BBE Sonic Maximizer will help.  Can you maybe take some digital photos of the front & back of both - large enough to see some of the words & post them here so we can get a look at what you have.  Maybe someone will recognise them as well & tell you either to move on or give it a shot.
Save the picture to your hard drive, then under the post, click browse & find the files, then click add file & submit the post.  The picture will appear.
Author:  jondl [ Sat Nov 11, 2006 12:56 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Newbie needs a little help.
I currently can't find my digital camera right now but i was examining the pictures on the vocopro site and it seems the V on my Vocopro logo is more like a U than a V but box shaped.  I'm pretty sure i would just want new hardware since the amp produces a huge hum either way.  

Also, i emailed my speaker provider for their input on the speakers + karaoke situation to figure out if it would be a problem.  They are very helpful people.  If they give me the green light that nothing should happen to my speakers then i'll give it a shot and with a new amp, mixer, and i think we already have an EQ.  

What is a BBE Sonic Maximizer?  I'm assuming its something for bass reproduction?  

And could you list some bang for your buck products that i can start my research with?  I'm pretty lost when it comes to PA speakers, mixers, amps, etc.  

I would consider used.

PA Speakers to consider (Mains only for around $600)?
Mixers ($150)?
Amps($200-$300)

As of right now, i'm thinking of getting a Crown XLS-402 amp and probably a vocopro mixer.  And once my speaker providers answer my question, i'll consider getting some PA speakers.  I'll probably just sell off the surround speakers and get a set of PA speakers.
Author:  Lonman [ Sat Nov 11, 2006 4:09 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Newbie needs a little help.
jondl @ Sat Nov 11, 2006 12:56 pm wrote:
What is a BBE Sonic Maximizer?  I'm assuming its something for bass reproduction?  


It's basically a frequency aligner, which helps speakers be more efficient in their sound output while crisping up the highs & boosting the lows.

Quote:
PA Speakers to consider (Mains only for around $600)?


Yamaha BR15 ($550 for the pair - new)  May be a little larger than you want to go, but the sound will be very full for home use - good bass (15") & nice highs.  
Yamaha S112V ($600 for the pair - new)  A little smaller, a little cleaner highs, not as much bass but not bad for a 12", again for home use, would most likely be fine.

Quote:
Mixers ($150)?


Alesis Multimix 8USB - $150 new.  Decent little mixer, has effects built in & ability to connect to your computer via USB for home karaoke recording as well.

Quote:
Amps($200-$300)


Samson SX1800 would match either of the above speakers.  Remember when you get an amp, you want the power rating to match the speakers "program" power handling.  The above speakers handle 400 & 350 watts respectively & this amp pushes 400 watts per channel.  Now that don't mean you have to crank it up, what it means is you will have nice clean sound at regular listening volumes with no distortion & headroom without damaging your speakers.
Author:  Guest [ Mon Nov 13, 2006 1:56 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Newbie needs a little help.
Does the amp/speakers hum only when you connect the TV?    If so, you have a ground loop that needs to be eliminated on the coax cable.
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