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Digital KJ's reccomended tools
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Author:  bigjim56 [ Tue Nov 07, 2006 1:38 am ]
Post subject:  Digital KJ's reccomended tools
I'm getting to the point where I'm figuring out which way I want to go on this. Because of the numerous downfalls of using CDG players vs. computer KJ, I looked into a local PC store to fix me up w/a rack system specifically designed for Karaoke use. I like the idea of downloading them to PC, and then storing the CDG's. I can get a used desktop for $2-400 with all the specific components that i desire. My question to all of you digital KJ's is...

1)  Sound card...name the better ones, I have read the thread from the Technical
   side and they inferred that a "stock" soundcard is inferior to a more specialized  
   soundcard such as Soundblaster or Nividia.

2)  RAM, I was quoted for 512 RAM, but 1024 is a better choice for speed...agreed?
    The extra RAM needed?

3)   It will be set up for dual  monitors, is it possible for 3 monitors? Want to put the
     words onto a TV set on other side of bar to help get crowd involved more. If
     not, will use an old video camera for video of singer.

4)   Was quoted for a PC w/2.4 MGZ 40 GB Pentium 4 w/a 120 GB secondary hard
     drive.  Still not sure of the software I'm going to use...Winamp, Hoster etc. I like
     Hoster because of the compression capabilities, but it is expensive. Which way
     is better, increase hard drive capabilities or Hoster compression of CDG's?

5)   Plextor drives are the driver of choice, but is it really necessary? Other drives
     should be close as far as performance. It will cost additional for the Plextor
     drive, but once the CDG'c are loaded, the drive is inoperable till the next load.

That's all the questions for now, tell me what you use and how well its working for you. If I left anything out, let me know. I will have a dual CDG player as a backup with my CDG'c stored on site.

Thanks again for your inputs, all discussions are appreciated...

                                                                             bigjim56
Author:  knightshow [ Tue Nov 07, 2006 4:36 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Digital KJ's reccomended tools
1.) I personally prefer the Soundblaster USB MP3+ device for sound... never once had a complaint about sound. There are many on here who prefer the more expensive Delta 44 unit.

2.) RAM is cheap. You can get a full gig for $70 bucks! Why not error on the side of caution. If you do decide to go with Hoster, it'll help having more memory for the compression. I've seen Hoster in use, and it's doing a LOT of work!

3.) Some of your more expensive vid cards have three different vid options out. Seems a bit overkill. I do fine with a dual vid display. Not saying I'm not envious of those that have three and four displays going!!

4.) NEVER use second hand equipment! My Goodness... The price on hard drives is SO cheap! You can get a 320gb hdd, internal or external for around a hundred bucks! The reset of it sounds okay... but I might opt for a 60 gb C drive!

Don't know where you're looking, but you can get a plextor for $50! Don't go "cheap" and then try to work around it. That's cheap for a basic burner anyway!
Author:  jamkaraoke [ Tue Nov 07, 2006 6:04 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Digital KJ's reccomended tools
1) I personally used in my desktop the Mayya44 sound card. Which ever one you choose look at the inputs, One thing I like about the Maya is that they were 1/4" jack inputs versus RCA type.  Just a thought

2) I agree with Knight, if you can afford more ram then go for it , is it needed??
maybe not but it couldn't hurt.

3) You need at least the dual display video card  so you can display the graphics on the TV while controlling the show on YOUR monitor. If you need to send graphics to MULTIPLE TV screens you can get a external unit from radio shack to take 1 signal into multiple ones.  

4) If you going to get a cd burner drive to use for karaoke - Get PLextor
plain and simple. - Just make sure the model can read and write cd+g.

If you will use your computer just for KARAOKE purposes you can get a workable unit for reasonable amount of money.  As far as which software to use , you need to ask yourself a few questions
1) Is it just for Karaoke Hosting and NO DJ
2) Do you want to be able to play customer CDG's on your PC
3) Do you need rotation management included in your software

The compression issue although real, in my opinion is a non issue. Hardrive space in a rackmounted unit should be cheap enough.  Just rip your cdgs to a decent rate
of 192kps and you won't be disappointed.  I prefer MP3+g over the other formats as it is more widely accepted by software companies if you choose to upgrade or change.
Author:  Chuck2 [ Tue Nov 07, 2006 6:36 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Digital KJ's reccomended tools
Goldenhawk software has a good list of supported devices for reading CD+G disks. http://www.goldenhawk.com. Once you get the page loaded, look to the left and click on the link that reads "Supported devices".

I always buy a CD writer from this list. The reason is that even some Plextors don't read the CD+G disks.
Author:  karyoker [ Tue Nov 07, 2006 7:59 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Digital KJ's reccomended tools
As far as multiple displays this is using the onboard video and a dual head PCI video board.

Image

When doing this the choice of PCI slot is critical... Multple displays can be used but at some point more resources is being used for video than sound... That is why an audio or karaoke work station should be tuned for the particular application..


As far as software I would recommend downloading several and trying each one.. In your situation you would need one that does KJ DJ both....I am assuming you will be hiring hosts so you want one that is simple yet efficient.. The final choice will depend upon your specific needs..

I would also be concerned with security and have your music files password protected so nobody can copy and steal them...

Ram is cheap...
There is alot of systems now using the onboard sound..

I know when I first put in a delta44 there was a vast difference..  Now it is not that great as the AC97 Codecs are improving..  A better sound board can be downstream...  

Another option would be  computer with a plextor to rip cd's and print books etc in a locked small room... I have done it and it works great is accessing the music wireless from the main comp to a laptop or other desktop. This would further increase the security aspect....For sure have youe cd's locked up.....
Author:  Lonman [ Tue Nov 07, 2006 9:16 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Digital KJ's reccomended tools
bigjim56 @ Tue Nov 07, 2006 1:38 am wrote:
1)  Sound card...name the better ones, I have read the thread from the Technical
   side and they inferred that a "stock" soundcard is inferior to a more specialized  
   soundcard such as Soundblaster or Nividia.


Maya card would be a better choice, but some have had luck with the Sound Blaster - although it's more for home use rather than pro use.

Quote:
2)  RAM, I was quoted for 512 RAM, but 1024 is a better choice for speed...agreed?
    The extra RAM needed?


More RAM is always better.  512 is usually a minimum that most programs will work, but if you can get more, you won't be sorry.

Quote:
3)   It will be set up for dual  monitors, is it possible for 3 monitors? Want to put the
     words onto a TV set on other side of bar to help get crowd involved more. If
     not, will use an old video camera for video of singer.


Is it possible for 3 monitors - yes, a video signal splitter on the signal going to your singer monitor.  This will allow you to send that signal to other tv's in the house as well.

Quote:
4)   Was quoted for a PC w/2.4 MGZ 40 GB Pentium 4 w/a 120 GB secondary hard
     drive.  Still not sure of the software I'm going to use...Winamp, Hoster etc. I like
     Hoster because of the compression capabilities, but it is expensive. Which way
     is better, increase hard drive capabilities or Hoster compression of CDG's?


Chances are you'll want a bigger hard drive, but I would use the 40 GB for the programs only & the 120 for the music files.  I have Hoster as well - great program IMO even though it does cost, I am still working on the transfer to my hard drive.  I have 120gb Seagate & right now i'm over 8,000 songs on the hard drive & almost halfway full - still have around 4,000 more to go, I am putting all I own into the computer dups included, although dups will not be listed - simply for alternative version for people's preferences.  These are all ripped at 192.  Since Hoster is based on the WMA, for great sound it don't need to go higher.  People WILL argue this point, MP3 based rips for equal quality need to be ripped at a higher rate=bigger files.

Quote:
5)   Plextor drives are the driver of choice, but is it really necessary? Other drives
     should be close as far as performance. It will cost additional for the Plextor
     drive, but once the CDG'c are loaded, the drive is inoperable till the next load.


Plextor is pretty much a standard for karaoke, although there are some that will work flawlessly, why take chances.  There are also some that won't work at all for cdg.

Quote:
That's all the questions for now, tell me what you use and how well its working for you. If I left anything out, let me know. I will have a dual CDG player as a backup with my CDG'c stored on site.


Always a good idea to have a back up & this is a smart way plus you don't have to outlay the added expense of duplicating your computer, since your discs will be locked up on premises!
Author:  planet_bill [ Tue Nov 07, 2006 10:53 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Digital KJ's reccomended tools
I build computers. Someone mentioned never going used. There's probably some good used stuff out there, but new stuff is always dropping in prices. You can get lower end new pc's on the cheap. For instance Dell offers a $299 deal with a flat panel monitor. Course that one has a Celeron and probably integrated (on the motherboard) sound and video. Better processor, more (faster) memory, and a good videocard / soundcard is often where most of the expense lies...not to mention Dvd burners, etc. This is long winded, but you can find low priced good new units for not much. I'd say for $500 you could probably do pretty darn well. Another thought is some of the new older tech (like older tv out video cards) will probably be quite a bit less in price than cutting edge new components, but would still be plenty of performance for a karaoke machine.

As for multiple tvs' just use a splitter.

Bill
Author:  bigjim56 [ Wed Nov 08, 2006 2:41 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Digital KJ's reccomended tools
Thanks everybody for the replies. The reason for the used is that funds are in short supply (still need to get dual CDG player and some par can lights for start up...don't want to use any of the other KJ's stuff when I start up). I believe that these used computers are an excellent choice (sorry to disagree knightshow), they are acquired from companies that go through regular upgrades. They completely erase everything on them and install only what the customer requests. My Karaoke computer would only get used 20-30 hours/week (once loaded) and it will reside inside a stereo cabinet with a glass door covered with a non transparent cover, helping it to stay away from the bar undersireables of smoke etc. when not in use.

Thanks Babs for the lead on the song request sheet (other thread). Good point. I need to remind them also that not all music is in CDG format, do a search and get back to them. Looks like it will be a continual work in progress. My library will be happy.

I don't have much preference on what music they want, I like all kinds of music. My objective is to keep the customers happy and INCREASE CLIENTELE. If they are rough with the equipment or combative, I am the owner of the bar and the sound equipment they'll be trying to sing in the traffic if they piss me off. Right now this bar is barely surviiving, and something has got to change for the better. We've only had this bar for 5-6 months and the one thing I am sure on is "People love their Karaoke". There's been some Karaoke nights that the whole bar (both sides) was rocking and I hated to close at 1:30...I want more of them nights!  $$$

I will have the Yamaha system on the Karaoke side, with a seperate amp and Bose speakers strung along the outer ceiling on the other side. A TV dead center in the ceiling on that side will also show either the words/video of the song/singer. This will get both sides into the atmosphere and let the drinks flow...  What's everyone's opinion for this...which is better words or video?

Lonman, thanks for the Maya sond card rec. More RAM (>512) will be gotten. A splitter is all that is needed for words to other TV set. Plextor drive for approx. $50 from knightshow comment, just have to make sure its a Plextor drive that R/W CDG, as not all do.

karyoker, password protection of songs is a definite, I assume most CDG software comes with this feature. If notI will use the computer security password feature for startup. Delta44 soundcard pref. noted with 2 choices (Maya), Soundblaster takes a back seat.

jamkaraoke, Plextor drive rec. noted. CDG R/W capable Plextor wins the driver war hands down!  The software will have to be able to handle KJ and DJ, customer CDG's/CD's are OK to use after my personal inspection. Rotation management is desireable, I want to free myself up to work the crowd (both sides). I assume winamp and MP3+g is capable of this?  I'm beginning to understand that the compression issue is not so big as I thought due to the continual cost reductions in memory components.

Thanks everyone again for the inputs, I appreciate the education that I'm getting and am looking forward to the start up of this venture.

                                                                 :)    bigjim56
Author:  Guest [ Thu Nov 09, 2006 12:39 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Digital KJ's reccomended tools
BIGJIM, get the Radio Shack RF amplifier for the TV hookups.    NOT JUST A SPLITTER.     Whenever you start running more than one TV the signal starts to get weak.   The RF amplifier will boost the signal to eliminate any interference.      They make a one in 4 out.     That's what I use.   I can feed all the TVs I want.
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