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Contracts, does anyone use them?
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Author:  maninblack [ Thu Oct 12, 2006 7:46 pm ]
Post subject:  Contracts, does anyone use them?
A gig that I have for a company at the end of the month has requested that I present them with a basic contract for the accounting dept. to use as proof of work and payment.
Have any of you folks used one before and if so, do you have a copy of it that I could use.
I have contracts from my earlier days as a live musician, but I'm a bit braindead tonight to try and sift and sort through it all to come up with a basic statement for Karaoke. As a solo artist, I've never had to use one, I just do the gig, get my money, go home.
Any help would be greatly appreciated.

James
Maninblack
Karaoke Host
Author:  Laura [ Thu Oct 12, 2006 8:38 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Contracts, does anyone use them?
No, and it's probably a good thing, because I would hate to have to keep putting them in my eyes and taking them out, worrying about losing them, etc.  Besides, I mostly just need glasses for driving.

...Oh, wait a minute, you said "contracts".   LOL  :hi5:  Sorry, I can't give you any info on that...I was just hav'n some fun wit ya...
Author:  maninblack [ Thu Oct 12, 2006 8:53 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Contracts, does anyone use them?
Laura @ Fri Oct 13, 2006 12:38 am wrote:
No, and it's probably a good thing, because I would hate to have to keep putting them in my eyes and taking them out, worrying about losing them, etc.  Besides, I mostly just need glasses for driving.

...Oh, wait a minute, you said "contracts".   LOL  :hi5:  Sorry, I can't give you any info on that...I was just hav'n some fun wit ya...


Oh so is that somewhere along the lines of:
'Houston, we have contracts'
'Yes we know, that's why you're flying around in a spaceship built by the lowest bidder' :)
Author:  Babs [ Thu Oct 12, 2006 9:35 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Contracts, does anyone use them?
I don't use them - not that it isn't a good idea. I just haven't
had the need. If it is just for show you can probably find a
generic contract at your local office max or googled it. I'm sure
you could find one on the net and make the changes needed to
make it your own.  :hi5:
Author:  maninblack [ Thu Oct 12, 2006 9:46 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Contracts, does anyone use them?
Yeah I finally sat here and took one of my old contracts and worked out a basic form to give to them. Something I've needed to work on anyway.
Thanks just the same folks, I appreciate it.

James
Maninblack
Karaoke Host
Author:  Guest [ Thu Oct 12, 2006 9:56 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Contracts, does anyone use them?
This doesn't sound like much of an answer but when in doing any kind of service oriented business, those four-square contracts are a must.
Author:  Lito [ Thu Oct 12, 2006 10:58 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Contracts, does anyone use them?
maninblack,

For most KJ/DJ's I know use contracts in just about everything with the exception of bars, most bars around here do not do contracts.

The one best piece of advice about contracts, in the wording of "retainer" over "deposit". I'm not a legal eagle, but to my knowledge that had been conveyed to me: deposits are refundable if they cancel the gig, where retainers are to hold/reserve the date in question and cannot be refundable if they cancel.

Because if you could have booked the same date, but had to turn it down a second inquiry, you're out of money if the first one canceled.

There are certain circumstances where I would refund a retainer, death in the family, illness, hurricanes, etc.... where a circustance is beyond ones control, acts of god.

I'll email you a copy of my contract, if you want me to, to give you some ideas, but you should have any legal document looked over by a lawyer to confirm or deny the legalese of any wording that you would like to change. Just let me know.


Hope this helps.


:D
Author:  Guest [ Thu Oct 12, 2006 11:01 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Contracts, does anyone use them?
Can you make it simple, almost like a receipt, just give it to them at the end of the gig.     Or submit it a week or two before.   I have done that.    They just need to be sure the money paid out wasn't stolen by the employees.   :yes:   They are going to use a check anyway.   You might not get it for a week or two after.

Do you have a letterhead.   Just type out a receipt with your letterhead on it.

List the play date, time, amount and what type of service.    DJ/karaoke or whatever.    Sign it.   Keep a copy for your records.   Or send two copies and have them return one to you with the money.    NO need ot get extravagant, unless you think they will screw you.

I have never used a contract in 14 years.    I have done weddings, anniversaries, class reunions, etc.
Author:  maninblack [ Thu Oct 12, 2006 11:20 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Contracts, does anyone use them?
Yeah it's just a formality for their company, so they can explain to the accountants where the money went.

I did a basic form, with my name, the name of the company hiring, the hours of show, the amount due at end of show.(sorry but I don't wait on my money, it has to be there waiting for me, which is why I'm giving them this in advance.)
and other mumbo jumbo like the following:

'This letter will serve as an informal though binding contract and can only be cancelled by mutual agreement of both parties.  
Cancellation is required 7 days in advance or full payment will incur. The only exception would be adverse weather conditions, which could compromise the safety of attendants and performance of show,  
or emergency situations beyond the control of both parties.'

The only reason I put the weather clause is because it's outdoors.  

Just basic to the point. It'll do for the time being til I can sit down and work on a final draft. Since I've been doing and plan on doing more private parties, I know some of these folks will want to write it off as an entertainment and business expense. So it's better to have it and not need it, than to have to come up with something on the fly.

James
Maninblack
Karaoke Host
Author:  lyquiddye [ Thu Oct 12, 2006 11:45 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Contracts, does anyone use them?
How do you handle an insurance claim if you do not have a contract with a venue?

Let me guess you don't have liability insurance either?

I have a number of clauses that are required to be in my contract, as per my insurance underwriter.

In all honesty, I would contact your business lawyer and send the $500 to $1000 for him or her to prepare a proper business contract.
Author:  Guest [ Fri Oct 13, 2006 12:08 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Contracts, does anyone use them?
I am a sole proprietorship.    Not that it matters.   I am fully insured.   If I break something in a bar, it will get paid for by me if it's a small thing.   If it's a big thing insurance will pay.  There will still be a deductable.     My insurance covers the equipment and liability for personal injury.   If my equipment falls on someone.   Why does a contract protect an insurance claim?     My contract is a continuous weekly, verbal contract.   That means when I get hired I will be back every week until they tell my to quit.    Or unless I decide that they are jerks and I quit.    I have walked out on many jobs for just such reasons.   If I had a binding contract I would have been sued.    I don't need that.   I will never use a contract for any occasion, as I have stated before.   I don't even need a down payment.   MY word is good and yours better be too.      If there is an ice or snow storm and we mutually decide to cancel, so what.     If I want to cancel because of the weather, so what.   If they want to cancel because of the weather, so what.     I make enough money from the every year.   One night will not kill me.    I'm not taking them to court.    Noone has ever taken me to court.   You need to get a grip.   In 14 years there have been many weather cancellations on both ends, it happens every year.   NO BIG DEAL.   I lose $175, I'll still make $8,925 for the rest of the year.   Is that worth going to court?   Is it worth having a contract?     If they fire me, the contract is toilet paper anyway.    I have never been screwed by anyone, ever.    Maybe it's because I am, who I am and that's all that I am, I'm BIGDOG THE PURE KJ MAN.
Author:  Tom Eaton [ Fri Oct 13, 2006 6:24 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Contracts, does anyone use them?
I'm surprised to find myself in agreement with Bigdog on this one.  I know the original question involved a situation where he was asked to provide a written contract for accounting purposes, so that's different, but in the more typical karaoke hosting situation the verbal agreement is voidable by either party at any time.  If either party isn't happy, they just don't do another show, and if the KJ (I imagine it's pretty much always the KJ) hasn't been paid for a show they've already done, there usually isn't enough money at stake to bother taking it to court.  It makes more sense to just cut your losses and refuse to do business with the other guy from that point on.  

For special, one-time engagements like weddings, a written contract might be more beneficial, as there is usually more money on the line and it may take the KJ a lot more preparation time, plus there can be more concerns about possible cancellation.  What if it rains?  What if the wedding gets called off at the last minute?  Is there a deposit involved?  Is it refundable?  Under what conditions?

Sorry, it's the lawyer in me coming out.
Author:  knightshow [ Fri Oct 13, 2006 7:09 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Contracts, does anyone use them?
I have used contracts in the past. If you need one, I can email you the link, James!
Author:  maninblack [ Fri Oct 13, 2006 8:08 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Contracts, does anyone use them?
Sure if you guys want to email your contracts not a problem. Like I said, this is just for the accounting office. But any ideas that I may have overlooked are indeed welcome.

James
Maninblack
Karaoke Host
Author:  Lonman [ Fri Oct 13, 2006 11:13 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Contracts, does anyone use them?
Never used contracts in a bar, there isn't much recourse & the bars can usually wriggle their way out of one.  I've seen several 'contracted' bar gigs lose their gig even with a certain length contract and a few even tried to sue & lost.
Always would use a contract in private shows.
Author:  Guest [ Fri Oct 13, 2006 11:26 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Contracts, does anyone use them?
Lonman @ Fri Oct 13, 2006 10:13 am wrote:
Never used contracts in a bar, there isn't much recourse & the bars can usually wriggle their way out of one.  I've seen several 'contracted' bar gigs lose their gig even with a certain length contract and a few even tried to sue & lost.
Always would use a contract in private shows.


Contracts drafted correctly don't allow 'wriggle'.  Just an example of the importance of the wording and exit clauses.
Author:  Lonman [ Fri Oct 13, 2006 11:37 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Contracts, does anyone use them?
dsharrow @ Fri Oct 13, 2006 11:26 am wrote:
Lonman @ Fri Oct 13, 2006 10:13 am wrote:
Never used contracts in a bar, there isn't much recourse & the bars can usually wriggle their way out of one.  I've seen several 'contracted' bar gigs lose their gig even with a certain length contract and a few even tried to sue & lost.
Always would use a contract in private shows.


Contracts drafted correctly don't allow 'wriggle'.  Just an example of the importance of the wording and exit clauses.


The one that took the bar to court had his drafted by an attorney that specialized, he still lost, the bar showed a loss with his services after paying his price - which was at the time $275 per night.  I still that was a lie that they were losng money, but point is it was a professional contract & the karaoke company still lost.
Author:  timberlea [ Fri Oct 13, 2006 11:48 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Contracts, does anyone use them?
We don't use contracts.  For private shows we get half up front a week prior, non-refundable unless we can't do it.  It hasn't happened and won't happen.  Too many back-ups.
Author:  Laura [ Fri Oct 13, 2006 12:31 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Contracts, does anyone use them?
Lito @ Fri Oct 13, 2006 12:58 am wrote:
maninblack,

For most KJ/DJ's I know use contracts in just about everything with the exception of bars, most bars around here do not do contracts.

The one best piece of advice about contracts, in the wording of "retainer" over "deposit". I'm not a legal eagle, but to my knowledge that had been conveyed to me: deposits are refundable if they cancel the gig, where retainers are to hold/reserve the date in question and cannot be refundable if they cancel.


Lito, I'm just looking at your screen name here.  It reminds me of the song "Lido Shuffle" by Boz Scaggs, except your name has a "t" instead of a "d".  Is that where you got the name--or is it actually your name?

And my apologies for being off-topic...
Author:  Laura [ Fri Oct 13, 2006 12:33 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Contracts, does anyone use them?
maninblack @ Thu Oct 12, 2006 10:53 pm wrote:
Oh so is that somewhere along the lines of:
'Houston, we have contracts'
'Yes we know, that's why you're flying around in a spaceship built by the lowest bidder' :)


*grin!*  :D
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