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The next great BIGDOG debate.
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Author:  Guest [ Thu Aug 17, 2006 12:29 am ]
Post subject:  The next great BIGDOG debate.
Switching to computer soon.    

Let's hear all the pros and cons of laptop vs rack mount.  

No opinions, actual experience stuff, good and bad.    

Let's try to pin this down to the best option for professional, 5 or more nights a week working situations.    

Can a laptop handle that work load?    Can a laptop have additional internal cooling built in to it?

List all equipment needed for rack mount if building one.    List any "prefab" equipment.

I need 2gig or better processor.    Which name brand/type is best for video and audio?  

Is there a mother board that suits the video and audio better?  

Is all memory the same?     Is one type more suitable for this application?

Any other internal/external hardware that would be useful?    Video and audio hardware, do we want internal or external?      Money is not the question.    I want quality.   Don't get super technical, I'm a nerd.
Author:  Keith02 [ Thu Aug 17, 2006 2:15 am ]
Post subject:  Re: The next great BIGDOG debate.
It's not a complicated question, so don't try to make it so in your head.

Any PC, rackmount or not is better suited as a music machine for the guy who plans to use it constantly over a period of time.

A laptop must be purchased with all the bells and whistles included except any single option/upgrade than can be plugged into it's pci slot....Laptops truely ready for pro level KJ/DJ work are therefore very expensive and offer limited options to upgrade in the future.

Laptops are also very fragile and easy to steal/damage.

If considering choice tween laptop and PC, then remember that you gotta BUY the laptop, but it's better if you BUILD the PC....By building the PC you are not limited by the mostly restrictive MOBOs offered by factory PC makers, and you are not paying for a bunch of crap you don't need.

Factory PC's and laptops usually come with builtin sound and video....Not good because you must then buy additional cards to provide you PROPER sound and video....Save yourself trouble and money by building a PC with no builtin sound or video on MOBO....or if the MOBO has it, make sure you can turn it off in BIOS.

The ideal MOBO?..One that is known reliable...IE, Asus, Gigabyte, and  a few others....It must offer lots of open pci slots and PCI Express or AGP for video to support expansion...Any new MOBO today is gonna offer lots of USB connections and also SATA along with good old IEDE

Which socket style?....That's up to you....You can still get 754 stuff, but you are better off buying 939 or 775 socket tech simply cause they will be around longer and support the newest CPUs.
Author:  TopherM [ Thu Aug 17, 2006 6:52 am ]
Post subject:  Re: The next great BIGDOG debate.
MOBO HUNGRY!!! MOBO WANT THE FAT BIRD FOR TO EAT!!! FEED MOBO!!
Author:  karyoker [ Thu Aug 17, 2006 7:12 am ]
Post subject:  Re: The next great BIGDOG debate.
I have used a rack mount for years for the sound advantage Ive used a delta 44 sound card. It was never on the internet and tweaked for audio only.

But I am sitting here with a compaq presario 5105 laptop with all kinds of stuff on it. I can run my karaoke hoster and surf at the same time and never miss abeat. I hooked it into a friends Macke 808 and did his show and the audio was a vast improvement over his cd player (his optics needed cleaning) I run one show for 10 hrs and never missed a beat..  But now I have both can use either one but its nice to have a backup. So I guess the best answer is both...
Author:  jamkaraoke [ Thu Aug 17, 2006 7:21 am ]
Post subject:  Re: The next great BIGDOG debate.
I am currently using a laptop for all KJ and DJ work.  ( KJ work is once a week 5 hour show) plus maybe 1 or 2 DJ gigs a month .  PROS and CONS

Pro's : Laptop  / lighter  / easy to transport  / truly mobile if you every  need to work on your files anywhere

Cons: Laptop / More expensive / Fragile compared to a properly racked pc
        limited on hardrive space / requires external components  HD  / AUDIO cards
        IF SOMETHING GOES WRONG WITH A LAPTOP you have to send the entire     unit out for weeks and one more thing --that damm small keyboard

If I was a fulltime  / 5 days a week very MOBILE KJ/DJ  I would switch to a sturdy rack mounted PC with plenty of storage capabilities and of course all the required profesional SOUND AND VIDEO CARDS etc.   it just makes more sense to go rackmounted with  that type of work load. THATS THE NON TECHINAL ADVISE
as far as MOBOS BIOS THISOS AND THATOS...I don't have a clue
I'm a KJ ....not a computer GEEK  ( no malice intended to anyone)

GO RACK MOUNTED !!!! AND IF MONEY IS NO OBJECT --Get yourself a laptop for back up LOL

one more thing --HAVE YOU CHOSEN YOUR HOSTING SOFTWARE YET ???
Author:  knightshow [ Thu Aug 17, 2006 7:42 am ]
Post subject:  Re: The next great BIGDOG debate.
the thing I like about a pc is you can adjust it, reach inside and work on stuff... with a laptop, you really got to knw your way around...

PC's are very much upgradeable, laptops not so much so.

Pcs are less expensive with easier to find parts.
Author:  hamsamich [ Thu Aug 17, 2006 7:52 am ]
Post subject:  Re: The next great BIGDOG debate.
New Japanese Monster Movie:

MOBO vs BIOS!

doesn't sound complicated to me!  *snicker*

LMAO

I don't fully know what all these terms mean.  Anyway, thanks for the info, especially JamK.  What hosting software should I get, JamK?  I am using KaraFun freeware right now and I haven't done anything prof yet and won't until I pay for something.  What do you guys think?
Author:  jamkaraoke [ Thu Aug 17, 2006 8:26 am ]
Post subject:  Re: The next great BIGDOG debate.
Ham, not to hijack BIGDOGS topic but if you search these forums you will find
too many suggestions on which hosting software to use any where from
Sax and Dotties to MTU's Hoster .. Me I use PCDJ/KJ

All have there pro's and cons and deciding is a personal choice
MOST have some sort of free demo you can download and try
Go for it
Author:  jamkaraoke [ Thu Aug 17, 2006 8:27 am ]
Post subject:  Re: The next great BIGDOG debate.
Ham, not to hijack BIGDOGS topic but if you search these forums you will find
too many suggestions on which hosting software to use any where from
Sax and Dotties to MTU's Hoster .. Me I use PCDJ/KJ

All have there pro's and cons and deciding is a personal choice
MOST have some sort of free demo you can download and try
Go for it
Author:  JDrifter [ Thu Aug 17, 2006 9:08 am ]
Post subject:  Re: The next great BIGDOG debate.
I switched to a laptop because it is lighter, portable, and quicker to set up.  I bought a Toshiba Satellite A105 at Compusa two months ago for only $399.99 after mail-in rebate.  It has dual-display, S-Video, a DVD/CDRW combo drive, 40 gig HD, 15.4-in widescreen, and 256 MB memory.  I bought 1 GIG of RAM from Outpost for only $75.

Laptops are getting cheaper and more powerful.  To me, there is really no need to lug around a heavy mini-tower, a keyboard, and a monitor.  You don't really need a top of the line powerhouse of a computer to run a karaoke hosting software.  The only time you need those fast PCs is when you are into gaming and do a lot of music and video editing.  That's when you are better off with a desktop PC.

Someday, I'll buy another laptop which would be my backup.  For now, I am very happy with the laptop.

JMHO.

JD
Author:  twansenne [ Thu Aug 17, 2006 9:44 am ]
Post subject:  Re: The next great BIGDOG debate.
And another thing to think about if rackmounting a computer, I would use a SHOCK MOUNT CASE.  Traveling around in the back of a trailer/vehicle could casue a lot of dammage.  Most PCs that are rackmounted are ment to be rack mounted in a static location, such as a server room, and no ment to be transported around.  Therefore for truly MOBILE use, I recomend laptops (I gots 2 of em).

Now if I had a gig where the equipment stayd at the location, and had minimal movement, I would probably use a rackmounted PC.  Just casue it is a lot cheaper, and easier to upgrade.  But again for MOBILE use, I recomed laptops.

FYI.  I just mounted my 2 laptops in aluminum breifcases.  All the associated hardware (maxtor h-drive, external sound card, RF modulator, power pacs) are mounted underneath the laptop.  Now I walk into a gig, pull out the power, coax, and audo cord, and all ready to go.
Author:  karyoker [ Thu Aug 17, 2006 9:54 am ]
Post subject:  Re: The next great BIGDOG debate.
If you use the 90 degree pci risers use plastic ties to hold the boards in place Ive fried 2 video boards being partially out when booting up...
Author:  Tony [ Thu Aug 17, 2006 10:20 am ]
Post subject:  Re: The next great BIGDOG debate.
Bigdog @ Thu Aug 17, 2006 2:29 am wrote:
Let's hear all the pros and cons of laptop vs rack mount.  
No opinions, actual experience stuff, good and bad.
I have switched from laptop to rack mount a while ago.
* The RM is more rugged (shock mounted), easier to work on should something go wrong.
* Build in keyboard & mouse (slide tray).
* 14" LCD monitor.
* Less prone to theft.
* You can customize it according your personal liking.
* I carry a Ghost HDD should the internal one fail.
* It's in my equipment flight case, which always goes in the house after a gig.
:2cents:
Author:  Guest [ Thu Aug 17, 2006 11:52 am ]
Post subject:  Re: The next great BIGDOG debate.
I need 2 gig or more power to run Laser videos converted to a 400 hard drive.   Testing has shown this to be best to prevent glitches while queing and searching for songs.   While the lasers play.

I can see there would be a vibration issue with a rack mount.   Dislodging cards.   This wouldn't be an issue with a laptop.

As for having the laptop enclosed in a case, could cause too much heat to build up, whithout proper cooling, causing damage to the laptop.

I will be taking the box in the house every night.
Author:  karyoker [ Thu Aug 17, 2006 12:03 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: The next great BIGDOG debate.
My 2 unit has a fan sucking in and I arranged the power supply where it is sucking in and an exhaust fan .. The cpu has a big fan which I vented out the top.  I have run outside under an awning in 90 degree heat with no problems...
Author:  knightshow [ Thu Aug 17, 2006 12:35 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: The next great BIGDOG debate.
Bigdog @ Thu Aug 17, 2006 1:52 pm wrote:
I need 2 gig or more power to run Laser videos converted to a 400 hard drive.   Testing has shown this to be best to prevent glitches while queing and searching for songs.   While the lasers play.
I have 1 gb for my machine". I have a .txt file with all the songs, and searching is a breeze.

Don't know what you're using to play such files, but both Windows Media Player and clubdjpro both work wonders with the mere 1GB I have!
Author:  JDrifter [ Thu Aug 17, 2006 12:49 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: The next great BIGDOG debate.
2 gig of memory could be an overkill for hosting karaoke, but with the price of memory nowadays, it is quite tempting.  I have 1.2 gig on my laptop and it is speed demon in my opinion.  It is so much better than my old Dell Inspiron 3500.

I used to run Saxndotty on my home-built AMD Duron 600 with 528 MB and it was okay.  I never had problems with it.  I just hated lugging around that much equipment.  The minitower, the keyboard, the monitor, and all those cables.

I'm not too concerned about heat with the laptop.  The Dells that we use at the office are known to overheat and fail.  Toshibas are much better because they have more experience building laptops than Dell.  Years ago, Toshiba laptops were so expensive.  Nowadays, you can buy one for only $400.  Life is gooood....

Someday, I might build a rack-mounted PC.  I just can't justify the extra weight and the cost of building one.
Author:  eben [ Thu Aug 17, 2006 12:57 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: The next great BIGDOG debate.
I have rackmount for my main and laptop for my back up. It all depends on what you want to do. Lot of people already stated the obvious so I won't.

The advantages I see in rackmount is the versatility. I am using MTU hoster and other programs and I find that the 15" screen on laptop at 1024x768 is a bit limiting on screen space. With rackmount, I am using 17" with 1280x1068 and it's just good enough to use. I may switch to 20" in the future for higher resoution for the main screen. Similar argument for singer screen but it's not as important.

Rackmount gives more vertatility in connectivity. I can mount more fans to cool it down better. Laptops tend to run hot. If you use energy saving mode, your performance goes down. If you are just running KJ software, this is not really a problem but if you want to multi task, I am thinking of using it for DMX lighting control, you may run in to horsepower problem with laptop.

Unless you get a external keyboard/mouse, laptop keyboard sucks, the pointers are even worse. I like to use mouse and decent size keyboard for my fat fingers and I can choose what I want for rackmount.

Add ons are limited on laptons. Nowdays, most laptop only has 1 PCMCIA slot for expansion and usually it's taken up by a sound card. If you want to use more, you have to use USB 2, or if you are lucky, Firewire. Unfortunately, these pale in comparison to PCI in speed.

Laptops do offer portability, I have mine in a 2U padded drawer in my rack for portability, so I won't have to take anything else. However, I still prefer a rugged rackmount over laptop in most situation, specially if I have a large rack to fit it all in.
Author:  Guest [ Thu Aug 17, 2006 12:58 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: The next great BIGDOG debate.
Not 2 gig memory, 2 gig processor.
Author:  JDrifter [ Thu Aug 17, 2006 1:19 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: The next great BIGDOG debate.
Allow me to state one more time.  You don't need a fast PC to run a hosting software.  If you want to do video and sound editing, then obviously you'll need a fast computer.  You could build the most awesome PC on the planet but it's not really going to matter because you are simply running a hosting software.  

I have built PCs in the past, and I can tell you that it is a money pit.  I used to frequent the Computer show at Pomona, CA, and upgraded or built a new PC.  It was fun in the beginning but then it was a total waste of money.  I would rather spend the money on good quality pro-sound equipment.  Most of those equipment have been suggested by Lonnie, and I'm glad that I have listened to him.  After all, it is the sound quality that matters, not the toys that we want to have.

JMHO.

JD
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