Karaoke Forums

I have been following some of your threads with interest and have decided to seek your advice. First however promise you wont try and bamboozle me with tech terms.
No doubt my rig wont be up to your standards but it was the best that I could afford
I run wharfdale evpx series bi-amped speakers a simple Alesis fx mixer...one of the few available in my price range that would allow me to send my efx to foldback as well as foh. My foldback is a seperate small powered Crate system. my question is this...what sort of volume level should I looking to be setting the foh speakers at? Should I turn the speakers up and the mixer down? or the speakers down and work the mixer as required during the night. Much of my work is solo and restaurant/small venue stuff jazz/blues, 50's 60's 70 etc. The setup I have is probably overkill for what I need but since having it I have never had a complaint about volume. but following your threads I am concerned I am not driving my speakers and may do damage

I would run the speakers at max level as that knob is not so much a volume control as it is an output control for the internal amps, so to get full wattage to your speakers you need to run the amps wide open. You can then control the actual volume from your mixer, which is what it is designed to do. With your system there may not be much of an audible difference, but you will technically be getting healthier, cleaner, and more efficient sound from your system, which is then good for all of your componenets in turn, though, again, at such low overall wattage in the first place I doubt you are particularly "harming" anything the way you are running it now.....

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C Mc
KJ, FL

that was what I was getting from the other threads I was reading. my speakers are barely above the first notch and my master control on my mixer barely gets to 1/4
yet I am in the enviable position of turning down gigs. I guess I should experiment with running the speakers full but my god how am I going to get the low levels I need in an intimate a la carte restaurant situation?

Turn your channel volumes down a bit.

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LIKE Lonman on Facebook - Lonman Productions Karaoke & my main site via my profile!

Would like post a copy of one my previous posts in another forum here...


One of the most important procedure for setting up a system is the overall gain structure which if mal-adjusted causes noise, feedback etc. The following is almost verbatim from the JBL EON10 G2 manual. Since we use a "10 " for a stage monitor this applies directly but actually applies to all systems.


Gain Structure

Gain structure is the term we apply to adjusting the relative input sensitivity and output levels in audio system. The objective of proper gain structure is to minimize noise on one extreme and prevent clipping on the other. Proper gain structure will result in all components clipping about the same time.

First, lets clear up a common misconception. The input control on an amplifier or powered speaker does not determine how much power it will produce. A 100 watt amp (for example) can produce 100 watts no matter where the input control is set at. The input control simply determines how much input voltage is required to drive the amp to full output. If the input levels on a EON G2 are set too low (rotated too far counter-clockwise) the mixer will go into clipping before the amp is driven to full output. If the input controls are set too high the system will be noisy. With that in mind here is a procedure for setting up system gain structure that will get the best possible dynamic performance from your system.

Summary

Adjust your mixer so that the loudest passages drive the mixer almost to its peak output
Set the LINE/MIC switch to line (unless a mic is hooked up directly to the EON input)
Slowly bring up the INPUT 1 level control until the desired performance level is produced
When used with a typical DJ or audio mixer, this will probably place the control at 10 o’clock

Step by step instructions:

!. Begin with all level controls on your mixer and speakers at minimum.
2. Bring the input level of the Eon to 9 o’clock. We’ll come back and some final adjustments here later on.
3. Bring the output level of any electronic source (CD player, drum machine, electronic keyboard etc) to it’s “nominal” position. Make sure that foot pedals or any other volume control is at the level they will be during the performance.
4. At your mixer bring the “input attenuator” (sometimes called “Gain” or “Sensitivity” ) while playing the instrument or talking/singing into the mic. Be sure the level that you are playing at is the same as the performance level will be. Watch the channel “Clip”, or “Overload” or “Peak” indicator It should flicker on the loudest dynamic peaks.
5. Now bring the channel fader up to it’s “nominal” position. (See the mixer Owners Manual)
6. Slowly bring the mixer master faders to their nominal position. At this point you should sound from the speakers. If the level is too high trim back the INPUT 1 control on the EONS
7. Repeat steps 3-5 for all remaining channels
8. Check the meters on the mixer output. If you are seeing peaks that drive the meters into clipping. Trim back the master an channel faders slightly. Also be aware that actual performance levels tend to be higher that rehearsals and sound checks so you may want to trim back the input sensitivity slightly.
9. If and outboard processor such as an EQ is used it should be set to “unity gain” (see the processors Owner Manual) Unity gains means that the output level is the same as the input.
10. Now bring up the level on the speakers to the desired performance level. If clipping occurs before the desired volume is reached then more speakers are needed or a lower performance level.
11. Listen to the mix and adjust to taste
12. At this point the maximum output of the mixer should be capable of driving the speakers to full output and you will have the lowest noise that your system is capable of delivering.

The gain knob,a notch or two down, if the vol is still high.

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I can neither confirm nor deny ever having or knowing anything about nothing.... mrscott

My volume hasnt been too high, I am merely concerned after reading other threads that the way I am setting my speaker volume may be putting them at risk. When I first bought the speakers 4 months ago I considered the sound output wasnt really suited to the style of music I was performing ie jazz, ballads etc. It did however give a much fuller gruntier sound to my voice for rock, something I had never had before. I have since got used to the difference in sound. The fuller rockier sound has in turn given me added confidence.
I dont think I can do harm to them at low levels however the moment there is movement to the dance floor I find another gear and the first thing I do is reach for the master control. In this situation I am perhaps putting more pressure on them than I need do. They are so big and heavy I cant lift them onto the stands on my own...I am not good at putting on the helpless female act...but practise makes perfect I guess

Run them wide open & control from the mixer main fader.  If you are barely turning the main fader up, then your channel fader/gain struture is probably too high.

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LIKE Lonman on Facebook - Lonman Productions Karaoke & my main site via my profile!

Thank you all so very much for the advice. I have a couple of weeks without gigs and for the first time ever I am glad of the fact. It will be good to take some time to do nothing much and to experiment with new settings etc. I hope you wont mind if I get back to you again if I have any more questions.
Blessed be  :hug:

Just a note: your WWW does not work.

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I can neither confirm nor deny ever having or knowing anything about nothing.... mrscott

try typing www.nostringsattached.co.nz

Something Stupid; nice harmony.

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I can neither confirm nor deny ever having or knowing anything about nothing.... mrscott

hahahah if you note I take the melody unlike the original...I cannot hear a harmony no matter how hard I try so husband has to do the donkey work

my favourite is baby its cold outside I must get round to updating the site new music etc

Ella Fitzgerald, Cry me a River very romanticly sang
Bing Crosby, Baby its cold out side. vetry well sung too
The two of you sure can put up a good show.
My kind of music too

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I can neither confirm nor deny ever having or knowing anything about nothing.... mrscott

Thank you very much Jian I considered it a privilege to be able to pursue my hobby and get paid for it. If I could only behave myself and stick to 4 hours per gig (5 at the most) I could probably do more than one a week. But I cant walk away while folks are having fun so I normally do 6 or 7 hours and once a week is all I can handle. I sing till I can no longer croak a note and I know its not good but my enjoyment comes from seeing others rocking their socks off

If the Alesis mixer you have has the PFL option on each channel then the 1st place to start setting your levels is with that.

Select PFL on the channel of interest and adjust the channel gain control,with the eq flat,  so that the meter levels peak at 0dB at your typical maximum singing level.

If you subsequently add or remove eq reset the PFL level back to 0dB with the channel gain control to optimise your headroom/noise levels within the mixer.

A compressor in the vocal chain (placed in the channel insert) can help to even out large variations in the vocal level throughout the evening and could help save your voice for even longer sessions  LOL

GH

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Gadget's Karaoke : Boldly singing what no one has dared sing before.

no pfl on channels sadly. How could a compressor save my voice?

Compressor can't save your voice.  A compressor helps smooth out uneven signal levels.  Say you scream in the mic - a compressor will be like taking the fader & turning down the volume, but it does it automatically.  I can save your speakers however from them instant scream spikes.

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LIKE Lonman on Facebook - Lonman Productions Karaoke & my main site via my profile!

if I could scream in tune I guess I would do it...seems the harder I try the flatter I get so dont think the screaming is a problem....having said that, doncha just hate when some jerk walks up behind your mic and yells into it like it was the funniest thing to do in the world? I have stuck pins in dolls for less crimes