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Mixer Question
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Author:  iriskw1 [ Fri Jun 16, 2006 6:22 am ]
Post subject:  Mixer Question
My karaoke home system set-up:

-RSQ NEO-500
-Sonny DTS home theater receiver
-5 Bose speakers (301s and 201s) for surround sound; however, I only use the 2 main speakers (301s) for karaoke.
-JBL 12" sub connected to my receiver.

The music sounds good, but it lacks the "omph" I'm looking for. Everytime I sing, my voice sounds muffled. I have to turn the volume up just to be able to hear my voice through the speakers.   :(

I really want a PA system, but I'm not willing to invest more $$$ because I already have a system set up. I just need to improve what I have.

I've been looking into buying a small mixer (for less than $100). I've heard mixed reviews with the Behringer UB802 mixer. Reviewers complained of noise distortion with the mic input/vocals. I've also searched into the Topical Blend 6 mixer. This seems to be a better mixer. Has anyone used these mixers before? If so, I need your advice/opinion.

Also, once I found a decent small mixer, what's your suggestion on how to connect it to my karaoke home system?

Thank you.
Author:  iriskw1 [ Fri Jun 16, 2006 8:28 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Mixer Question
Anyone willing to help?  :angel: Please guys? Help a girl out? :roll:
Author:  eben [ Fri Jun 16, 2006 9:18 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Mixer Question
I tell you, I have never tried to use mixer with home receiver and I don't even know how to do it. I can give you some hints and see if it will work.

The primary problem I see is how to connect the signal from your mixer to your receiver. The connectors just don't fit. Usually the mixer output will have 1/4" or XLR output, althought my Mackie does have RCA output. Your input on the receiver is either RCA, Coax or optical. Forget even try to connect optical. Let's stick to RCA. If your mixer has RCA output, just get a RCA to RCA cable and hook it up to one of your input of your receiver. My suggestion is use one of the tape input as your input to the receiver.

If you have only 1/4" or XLR, I don't think you can do it. I checked the spec and the tape out of my mixer has impedance of 1.1kOhms. However, other outputs have 120Ohms. Even if you find a cable that will go from 1/4" to RCA or XLR to RCA, you will have impedance mismatch problem. You will get signal reflection and get even more muddled sound.

So, my suggestion is look for a mixer with XLR or 1/4" input for the mike but also has RCA output (unblanced) for your receiver. Otherwise, I don't think you can hook up your mixer to your receiver.
Author:  iriskw1 [ Fri Jun 16, 2006 11:01 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Mixer Question
Thanks for letting me know. I was getting ready to buy a small mixer, but since you've never heard of receivers being connected to a mixer, maybe it's not a good idea after all.

For the future, I might just have to invest on a PA system (for home use). A member here recommended the Fender Squier 4 Sound System from previous posts. This seems to fit my budget.

Again, I appreciate your advice. :dancin:  :worship:
Author:  Lonman [ Fri Jun 16, 2006 11:11 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Mixer Question
Well it can be done if it's done correctly, but you have to be careful with overdriving the inputs on the receiver.  However, using a home theater/stereo system for karaoke is just asking for trouble in the long run - too many things can blow, especially the speakers.
Better off getting a small pro system dedicated for karaoke.
Author:  Kellyoke [ Fri Jun 16, 2006 11:33 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Mixer Question
Any of the Fender Passport systems would also be a good "Home" unit.

Kelly
Author:  eben [ Sat Jun 17, 2006 9:27 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Mixer Question
Kellyoke @ Fri Jun 16, 2006 11:33 am wrote:
Any of the Fender Passport systems would also be a good "Home" unit.

Kelly


My friend uses it for his small karaoke gigs and he likes it. It's so portable and easy to use.
Author:  CJCJ [ Sun Jun 18, 2006 3:21 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Mixer Question
Excuse my ignorance but I don't know what a "receiver" is - I don't think it's a term we use here in the uk.

Is reveiver - amplifier?
What is the output rating of your amplifier and what is the rating of your speakers - if they are not matched up correctly you may get the muffled sound you mentioned. A really obvious one is to check that all of your connections are good and that you don't have a duff microphone.
Author:  Jian [ Sun Jun 18, 2006 4:10 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Mixer Question
"receiver"  is the home version of a power mixer. It receive signals from the DVD player, the Tape Deck, TV, etc, From there to the speaker.


now, what do you call that 'thing' in the UK? I didn't know that its a "receiver" until a joint this forum.
Author:  eben [ Sun Jun 18, 2006 10:23 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Mixer Question
CJCJ @ Sun Jun 18, 2006 3:21 am wrote:
Excuse my ignorance but I don't know what a "receiver" is - I don't think it's a term we use here in the uk.

Is reveiver - amplifier?
What is the output rating of your amplifier and what is the rating of your speakers - if they are not matched up correctly you may get the muffled sound you mentioned. A really obvious one is to check that all of your connections are good and that you don't have a duff microphone.


Actuall the term receiver is used in consumer market for a device that combines both the pre-amp and amplifier in one unit. Although some of the higher units have them separate, most of the consumer products will have both the pre-amp and amplifier in one, such as ones from most of the companies like Sony, Pioneer, Denon, etc.

For amplifiers, it's job is to amplify so input signal level is not that important, nor is impedance. However, for receivers input signal level and impedance is important to get a good sound. That's the reason why they have so many difference input types, like CD input, Casette input and some older ones LP inputs. They all have different input characteristics. That's why you don't want to mix pro level equipment with consumer level equipment, they don't tend to play well together.
Author:  TopherM [ Mon Jun 19, 2006 6:46 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Mixer Question
iriskw1,

Beyond all of the problems hooking a PA mixer up to a Home Theater receiver can cause, I'm afraid that it may not solve your initial problem. All that the mixer gives you is the ability to independently change the volume levels of each input and the Low, mid, high gain for each input. Your receiver should already have the ability to control the highs and lows (treble/bass), so I'm not sure you are going to gain any functionality that will help clean up your vocal, which looks like your main concern.

As everyone else is suggesting, you should probably look into a small PA. The good news is that it will sound 100% better for vocal performance than your home system and a system with the same wattage as your home system can be had for less than $300. Check out these systems:

http://www.americanmusical.com/item--i- ... 06_77.html

http://www.americanmusical.com/item--i- ... 06_77.html

http://www.americanmusical.com/item--i- ... 06_77.html

http://www.americanmusical.com/item--i- ... 06_77.html

These are all powered mixers with speakers. Just hook up your karaoke player and you are all good to go. You can also upgrade each component in the future as your budget allows to keep making your sound better and better. For home use, you'll notice a big difference in how any of these systems sound more like a live performance and less like your home theater's muffled vocal sound.
Author:  iriskw1 [ Tue Jun 20, 2006 2:55 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Mixer Question
Guys,

Thanks for all your help. I really appreciate it. I love this forum because of you. :oh yeah:  :dancin:

Iris
Author:  Tony [ Tue Jun 20, 2006 4:24 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Mixer Question
eben @ Sun Jun 18, 2006 6:23 pm wrote:
Actuall the term receiver is used in consumer market for a device that combines both the pre-amp and amplifier in one unit. Although some of the higher units have them separate, most of the consumer products will have both the pre-amp and amplifier in one, such as ones from most of the companies like Sony, Pioneer, Denon, etc.
I hate to do this Eben, but the definition of a receiver in consumer market is not necessarily a device that contains an amp and pre-amp. It is usually a pre-amp with an FM/AM/MW tuner. The main amp is separate.


Iris, TopherM gave some good links, but you can also look at
Kustom PA KPA4 PA Package - Price: $199.99
http://www.musiciansfriend.com/product/ ... sku=632200

Audio Choice C100 100W Portable PA System - Price: $199.99
http://www.musiciansfriend.com/product/ ... sku=630130

Of course, this is not the top-of-the-range, but will do for home use.
Author:  eben [ Tue Jun 20, 2006 12:17 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Mixer Question
AllStar @ Tue Jun 20, 2006 4:24 am wrote:
eben @ Sun Jun 18, 2006 6:23 pm wrote:
Actuall the term receiver is used in consumer market for a device that combines both the pre-amp and amplifier in one unit. Although some of the higher units have them separate, most of the consumer products will have both the pre-amp and amplifier in one, such as ones from most of the companies like Sony, Pioneer, Denon, etc.
I hate to do this Eben, but the definition of a receiver in consumer market is not necessarily a device that contains an amp and pre-amp. It is usually a pre-amp with an FM/AM/MW tuner. The main amp is separate.

Nope, the definition of a receiver is pre-amp, amp and yes tuner, which I forgot to mention. If it does not contain an amp, it's not called receiver. I know, name implies the tuner but receiver is by standard definition has all three items in one.

I have never seen an amp with just tuner built in. I have only seen few units that has pre-amp and tuner built in only but they are not called receiver. They are either pre-amp/tuner or pre-amp/tuner/processor. See this example. Often on high end systems, pre-amp, amp and tuner are separate units.
Author:  iriskw1 [ Wed Jun 21, 2006 3:42 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Mixer Question
AllStar, thanks for the info.  :hug:
Author:  lbister [ Wed Jun 21, 2006 9:55 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Mixer Question
Iris,

I concur with the advice you've been given here.  I don't believe that you can get better sound from your home stereo system than what you are getting now.  So unless you are planning on doing pro karaoke gigs a small PA system will more than meet your needs and give you much better quality sound.

Any of the systems that TopherM suggested should meet your needs.

If you are unfamiliar with PA equipment there are a couple of things to remember;

The suggested systems are all mono PAs.  You are probably used to hearing your songs in stereo.  Because these systems have only one amplifier they will play both tracks but they will only amplify them using a mono signal.  The output to each speaker will be exactly the same.

The systems, because they are mono, also do not have a separate amp to power a monitor.  So you are going to have to position at least one of the speaker cabinets so that it is facing towards you.  This will best enable you to hear what you are singing.  Just make sure you don't point the mic at the speakers; otherwise you're going to have a problem with feedback.

Larry
Author:  iriskw1 [ Thu Jun 22, 2006 3:05 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Mixer Question
Wow! I'm learning so much from this forum. Thank you again, guys. :dancin: You've been very helpful.

I feel so incompetent (truly, I am when it comes to electronics). My karaoke system is sounding much better. It turns out my new player (RSQ NEO-500) automatically sets the volume of the player to the maximum. I was able to lower the volume and I'm able to hear my voice much better. Previously, the music was overpowering my voice. I'm sure I will be able to adjust the automatic setting of the volume via the "setup" menu, so I don't have to keep adjusting it for every song.

However, even with the improvement, I would still like to get a small "PA system" in the future.  :oh yeah:

Iris

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Author:  mroctober [ Thu Jun 22, 2006 3:18 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Mixer Question
She Cute Too :)
Author:  Lagusaya2 [ Tue Jul 04, 2006 3:20 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Mixer Question
Stan here...the biggest problem I have is getting my voice up front of the backing. I always seem to be in an empty room...what am I doing wrong? I am usined Cool Edit Pro.

Stan
Author:  Tony [ Wed Jul 05, 2006 6:35 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Mixer Question
Lagusaya2 @ Tue Jul 04, 2006 11:20 pm wrote:
Stan here...the biggest problem I have is getting my voice up front of the backing. I always seem to be in an empty room...what am I doing wrong? I am usined Cool Edit Pro.

Stan
Hi Stan
The biggest influence on where the vocals are positioned (front/back) is your reverb. The longer the reverb, the further back you get. Personally I prefer short reverbs with a teeny weeny bit of chorus on the mics.
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