Lonman @ Fri Apr 21, 2006 12:44 pm wrote:
Happy Birthday is a public domain song, no fees required.
OMG...The great one was wrong....
, jut ribbing ya.
I too would have thought that "Happy Birthday" was in the public domain, but I am wrong too.
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| I Hope They Paid Their Licensing Fees https://mail.karaokescene.net/forums/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=6763 |
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| Author: | outdoorplaces [ Fri Apr 21, 2006 9:58 am ] |
| Post subject: | I Hope They Paid Their Licensing Fees |
A crowd of 20,000 revelers sang, "Happy Birthday," over and over again for 45 minutes earlier today to Queen Elizabeth of the United Kingdom, who turned 80 years old today. I can just picture the lawyers sharpening up their swords... |
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| Author: | Lonman [ Fri Apr 21, 2006 10:44 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: I Hope They Paid Their Licensing Fees |
Happy Birthday is a public domain song, no fees required. |
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| Author: | Babs [ Fri Apr 21, 2006 10:54 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: I Hope They Paid Their Licensing Fees |
Are you sure Lonman? I thought I remember Johny Carson talking one time on his show saying how they were fined $20,000 for singing it on the show. And isn't that why restaraunts use a different version of Happy Birthday? I don't know I could be wrong. |
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| Author: | Steven Kaplan [ Fri Apr 21, 2006 11:25 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: I Hope They Paid Their Licensing Fees |
http://www.snopes.com/music/songs/birthday.asp I never thought to look in film credits regarding this. |
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| Author: | twansenne [ Fri Apr 21, 2006 11:34 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: I Hope They Paid Their Licensing Fees |
Lonman @ Fri Apr 21, 2006 12:44 pm wrote: Happy Birthday is a public domain song, no fees required.
OMG...The great one was wrong.... , jut ribbing ya.
I too would have thought that "Happy Birthday" was in the public domain, but I am wrong too. |
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| Author: | Steven Kaplan [ Fri Apr 21, 2006 11:46 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: I Hope They Paid Their Licensing Fees |
I don't believe he is wrong 
You need to be careful with this stuff. I believe a song CAN in fact be Public Domain, yet ASCAP still see's to it that COMMERCIAL, for profit use pays royalties, IN SOME CASES. You and I singing it in private IS NOT copyright infringement according to perhaps THIS "public domain" situation, I think a song after 75 years becomes public domain, yet it can still be copyright protected, there's overlapping and grey here.... This is why it's often NOT wise for we lay people to try taking copyright law into our own hands. We generalize incorrectly ! I don't recall specifics, yet I do recall reading that this get's tricky. Public domain can (as I recall) preclude commercial for profit use. Also international copyright law, and specific area copyright law don't always see eye to eye...This stuff get's really mirky. I have seen "Happy Birthday" listed on public Domain lists.. I believe (again not certain) that Public Domain songs can be copyright protected in certain situations, yet there's some type of overlapping, or statute of time.. I need to check because definitions of "Public Domain", and "Public Performance" differ... I don't think Public Domain songs in SPECIFIC cases are exempt from paying Commercial royalties..* Also remember there are different areas. There's "Trademark Law", which isn't "Copyright Law", you don't protect a song's title under "Copyright" law. *Steven Kaplan <------ Not an Atty @TM |
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| Author: | Lonman [ Fri Apr 21, 2006 12:08 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: I Hope They Paid Their Licensing Fees |
Wow, would've thought otherwise. Yep big wrong on me! http://www.pdinfo.com/ Public Domain info. |
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| Author: | Steven Kaplan [ Fri Apr 21, 2006 12:12 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: I Hope They Paid Their Licensing Fees |
I'm not so sure you are wrong Lonman.. On this list it's not listed.. I have seen it on other lists for some bizarre reason, this is how mirky this get's.. Also read this disclaimer. It's on top of the list you included.. Of course there was also some change in the 1990's regarding this composition, and that MIGHT have something to do with this as well... "Inclusion on this list is NOT sufficient documentation that music is in the public domain. Even if a song is PD, there may be arrangements of the song still under copyright." |
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| Author: | Lonman [ Fri Apr 21, 2006 12:14 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: I Hope They Paid Their Licensing Fees |
Steven Kaplan @ Fri Apr 21, 2006 12:12 pm wrote: I'm not so sure you are wrong Lonman..
C'mon, Snopes don't lie ;) Every site i've looked up for history has said the same thing, they do get royalties everytime it's sung - such as tv, movie, radio. This is also, as read by many articles, one of the biggest infringed song but rarely are anyone prosecuted. |
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| Author: | Steven Kaplan [ Fri Apr 21, 2006 12:22 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: I Hope They Paid Their Licensing Fees |
Well, it does get intricate, we know that much ! Whether it became public domain, and was pending Copyright protection, that's possible too of course.. Quoted from site you listed: "Songs change over time. Even though a public domain version exists, some versions may still be under copyright protection. The only way to confidently identify a PD version is to find a copy of the song with a copyright date old enough for public domain status. You can then use that PD version or work from it to create your own derivative work. If you work from a version still under copyright protection, the copyright owner can likely make a valid claim for royalties. Music recordings are protected separately from musical compositions. Virtually every sound recording in the USA is under copyright protection until 2067. If you need a sound recording, you will either have to record it yourself or license one. A large selection of easily licensed sound recordings can be found in our Royalty Free Music sections. There are songs written after 1922 which are PD in the US, but only rarely can they be confidently identified without the advice of an attorney or rights clearance agency. Countries other than the US may offer copyright protection for 70 years or more after the death of the author. There is no such thing as an "international copyright". If you wish to use a song outside of the United States, you must check the copyright laws for each individual country where you use the song." |
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| Author: | Steven Kaplan [ Fri Apr 21, 2006 12:27 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: I Hope They Paid Their Licensing Fees |
Personally I think this sucks ! Some Japanese Elvis impersonator might legally be telling people "Hound Dog" is HIS composition 
Quote: There is no such thing as an "international copyright". If you wish to use a song outside of the United States, you must check the copyright laws for each individual country where you use the song." Quote: A crowd of 20,000 revelers sang, "Happy Birthday," over and over again for 45 minutes earlier today to Queen Elizabeth of the United Kingdom, who turned 80 years old today.
Unless we know UK law, we don't know much regarding this do we ? |
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| Author: | Lonman [ Fri Apr 21, 2006 12:45 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: I Hope They Paid Their Licensing Fees |
Steven Kaplan @ Fri Apr 21, 2006 12:27 pm wrote: Personally I think this sucks !
Some Japanese Elvis impersonator might legally be telling people "Hound Dog" is HIS composition Quote: There is no such thing as an "international copyright". If you wish to use a song outside of the United States, you must check the copyright laws for each individual country where you use the song." Hound Dog wasn't Elvis's composition anyway - originally written by Jerry Leiber & Mike Stoller & originally recorded by Big Mama Thorton in 1953. Elvis didn't do it until 1956. Elvis actually wrote VERY little of the music he performed. He was really nothing but a big "cover" artist - although making them a very different style obviously. |
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| Author: | Steven Kaplan [ Fri Apr 21, 2006 12:48 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: I Hope They Paid Their Licensing Fees |
Oh man ! This can make a funnier movie than "King Ralph".. John Goodman, and Peter O'Toole as two hick US Attorney's attempting to prosecute British Royalty for singing "Happy Birthday" without paying royalties. The Princess is having a tough time with menopause, and is a tone-deaf baritone... Her off key singing altered the composition and is used as evidence that they were singing an entirely different innovative rendition... |
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| Author: | Steven Kaplan [ Fri Apr 21, 2006 12:49 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: I Hope They Paid Their Licensing Fees |
True Lonman, I forgot about that. ADDED IN: You folks might find this interesting. (I don't know fact from fiction here, yet still) http://www.kuro5hin.org/story/2003/7/5/112441/6280 http://www.boycott-riaa.com/article/15999 (article: Happy birthday ***** you) |
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