Karaoke Forums

I grew up in a small town around 5,000.    Down the road are two biker bars that have been biker bars for over 50 years.     Let's set the stage.   My first vehicle was a motorcycle and over the years I have owned many.    Have a new 1400 down stairs.    It's not that I have a thing for people that ride, I don't.    But biker bars are biker bars not to be confussed with regular bars.    Some regular bars are drug pits, etc.    I was playing a nicer upscale bar/ restaurant.   Some of the owners friends talked him into it.   They decides to have a bike night on Tuesdays.    I'm setting up karaoke on Wednesday.   In comes two guys wearing colors.   What do you think started happening with the people that were there?    Yep, out the door.    Half hour later two more guys from a different gang sat across the bar.    Now we're not talking about Bob's Christian Missionary Riders.    Big gangs, with all that goes with them.  This could have been very ugly.      Another nice family bar/ restaurant.    The owner and his kid just bought hogs.   Now they are "bikers".    They started to tell me they wanted to do a bike night.   I tryed to tell them that most bikers don't have old ladies and they sure as hell aren't going to bring kids with them to eat.   They told me bikers aren't like they used to be.   Maybe not, but the reputaion still lingers.   And that once you get that reputation you are not going to shake it.     If someone going out to dinner with the family drives by and sees 3 bikes parked at a restaurant they are eating at McDonalds that night.    Every Friday I had to wade through people waiting to eat at 8:30, so I could set up.    They had me announce that starting Wednesday they were having Bike Night.    The following Friday the parking lot could have been a day care center playground.    Not a car in sight.   This continued for the rest of the summer.  They couldn't figure out where the crowd was???   I predicted that they would be closed in 1 year.   Time's just about up and they are hanging on by a toenail.   Won't last the summer.    You may have built up bike night but you killed the other 6.    If may name was Harley-Davidson and I owned a family bar/ restaurant the last thing I would ever, ever, ever have would be bike night.   Most bikers are normal nice guys like me, but what do you tell "Hells Angels" when they show up?   You can't come, it's bike night!!!    Better have the fire insurance paid up.   You've never seen a riot like this.   I don't even want to go to bike nights.   Also adding to this was the new pool table.   Nobody wants to take the family where they have a pool table.    9 out of 10 times there will be a fight at the table.    I played another nice family bar/ restaurant.   The place was packed for every karaoke.    All tables full of eaters and 4-5 deep at the bar.    I showed up one week to find a pool table in the diningroom.    Now when you have a good food business going and you remove 6-8 tables to fit in a pool table you lost income.    Within six months the owner admitted he made a big mistake.   He removed the table.    One year after the pool table went in, the bar closed.  It's still not open 5 years later.    If the bar has a pool table and it is near the spot where the singers stand to sing, I have them close the pool table.    All we need is for a singer to accidentally interfere with somebody's shot.    Plus they tend to get loud when they make or miss a shot, lots of swearing over top of the singer.    Singers don't like it if it's too noisy when they sing.    They won't come back.    It's karaoke night, not pool night.     They will make more money on the singers than the pool.    Same thing goes for a dart board near the singers.   Kill your reputaion, kill the business.    It only takes one stupid decision to kill a good business.    Business killers, all.

Whether it's deserved or not, a large row of bikes right outside the entrance to a bar/restaurant sets the tone for the whole evening right there.  If you want to come in here, this is a sneak preview of what you're getting into.  "Nice" people are going to think, "well, maybe this isn't such a good idea after all" and take off to find somewhere else to go.

The cluttered bar routine is always a big problem.  I always hated loading in equipment and trying to play in a place where there's little open aisle room for getting around.  Pool tables, dart games, TV's, the jukebox, the stage, the dance floor --- everything arranged in a totally disorganized way makes for a real headache. It's too crowded, people are stepping all over each other in this kind of chaotic layout.  Not much fun!

I agree, was a witness to too many bar fights when the motorcycles were plentiful outside.  Worrying about equipment being damaged.  I'll agree, not too fun!

The bar fight's I've been in, and have witnessed aren't bikers per se.. It has nothing to do with the biker's, it's usually an outside wise-ass punk (EXAMPLE... Idiot kid can't control aggression from alcohol, decides to be a wise-ass... dipsquat fool see's a hippo trying to relax, and get's this insatiable urge to throw a dart at the hippo's (@$%&#!)..usually it's the young punk's with an attitude challenging someone because they don't like the bikers, and have a condescending attitude that's the catalyst, they mess with the bull, and deserve getting their butt kicked in MOST cases)... It sort've bugs me that people assume row of bikes equates to unprovoked violence, and a nasty crowd... These were the groups I loved attending outdoor parties we played when I gigged, yeah, driving up with leather jacket's glasses, and chains SURE they look intimidating, yet these are usually normal down to earth people just dressed to ride their bikes comfortably....they are usually quite down to earth, and love to party like everyone else, yet I've seen few that have started fight's. MOST are decent people that DO NOT have some sort've identity crises... I've also seen MORE fight's in the younger bar's among testosterone charged kid's that are likely about to learn they can't handle alcohol.

LOADS of groups go for joyrides in the spring, and summer, they have common interests that's all...and are IN MOST CASES pretty comfortable with themselves, and trying to relax and enjoy themselves... usually mellow down to earth folks...NOT looking for trouble..Yet gang violence, well that's something entirely different...row of bikes in my area (at least) means just that, a group of folks that share an interest, (and the interest ISN'T going around beating people up) .In fact they often get pushed by idiot wannabe's that can't live and let live..... It's ironic yet I've found in bar fight's with bikers, and ethnic groups.... It's usually some young (@$%&#!)*(&^ that is about to learn firsthand about life, and DO NOT's in life, he just feels compelled to learn firsthand rather than use common sense, I've seen people throw bottles at bikers, test them to the hilt, name-call and roll up windows and drive off, etc. People ask for trouble with bikers, bikers aren't at bars looking for fight;s, they want to hang there, and be mellow and chill...yet they want to be left alone

I can understand how certain locations, and certain groups of "Biker's" aren't exactly where you'd opt to go dressed in a suit and tie, while on a romantic date... Yet as person who was on the streets, lived in low income housing with bikers, ex-angels, other dope addicts, etc during the tough sick times 25 years ago, I feel quite comfortable with most of these types people even still... MUCH more comfortable than I feel with White Collar trash cowardly backstabbing trash ! Those types makes me sick !!!.. Reality is, most of the folks people fear, are actually pretty down to earth. and seldom go around looking for trouble, or want trouble..I suppose if two opposing gangs are lining up outside a bar I wouldn't feel thrilled being the doorman, but the stigma of a row of bikes to me isn't founded these days in most cases...If you walk into a place looking and acting phobic, paranoid, eyeing people like there's something wrong, YOU are asking for trouble,  not them...In such cases when you get involved in confrontation it's often the person who has the attitude about others inadvertently creating a problem, your body-language, attitude without realizing it, creates a self-fulfilling prophecy, I did what could've been really dumb things in the old days when I was in sales, yet NEVER had a problem with bikers.. ..... ALOT of the local Harley clubs around here are white collar atty's, doc's, and classy folks who are baby-boomers nostalgic for the old days, and old bikes, sort've like I am... thing is, they can afford the low-riders, I can afford a Schwinn Stingray. Depending on age of bikers, location, row of bikes in the northeast means nothing scary what-so-ever, it's the crowd I dreamed of having when I was playing classic rock, these guys loved their rock, they also like musicians for some reason...HEHEHE, go figger... I guess they know we are harmless wimps... and they can get laid if they hang around the musicians, yet that's another thing I've yet to see  !!!!!... Today when I see a row of bikes outside a bar, (just as I don't cringe if it's 2 AM and I'm in a city *as a white boy* and there's a group of black people walking towards me)... I've learned that people are people, I don't look like a victim, EVERY carry myself like a victim, and I live and let live, and know who or when not to make eye-contact..Yet if lightening is going to strike, its going to happen...Whether I'm home, or out on the street...It's how I believe !   Alot of people that get into trouble, have X's painted on them, they somehow make target's of themselves...Decent people that respect others (Except for unfortunate random targets to sociopathic nutcases) usually are liked by all, bikers don't like to get messed with, yet they don't usually like fights....... While I wouldn't wish to KJ or DJ a joint with a row of crappy old bikes in the front... Some of my friends that have Harley's, have bikes that are worth ALOT more than my Chrysler Concorde... I usually WILL go into a place I see a row of bikes, ALOT of fascinating people, and easy to get along with potential friends in my experiences... As a musician, I like these types folks, just feel more comfortable being me.... and I'll to this day have no apprehension's about being the only honky that walks into a Blues club that's predominantly black, too...Body language is something that carries ALOT of weight.. A good thing for people to learn.......One thing I liked about experiences I got being on the road...and during the lesser fortuneate times when I lived on the streets.... Was that I feel ALOT more comfortable with these bikers, gang members, or just about ANY ethnicity; compared to how I feel going to a corporate white-color higher class Christmas party, now to me THAT'S about as ugly as human nature ever gets !!!

Problem as I see it is there's ALOT of prejudice to this day YEARS later for what was the stigma of the Hell's Angels... Ironically today, even those that rode with the ANgel's in the 60's are about the mellowist tightest friends a person can have...

I don't think 60's "greaser" when I see bikers... For some reason in fact, I feel like I'm back home.....  I have loads of humorous stories about "tough guys" that road bikes who everyone was afraid of... I won't bore you with them, but I told one story in one of these rooms last year....

Dan Chapman was expelled from 4 High Schools for beating people up.... Dan was the type you'd pay 50 cents to, to rough up the person of your choice... Lenny was another one... Lenny was what we termed "greaser" in the 60's.... He hung out behind the gym with clenched fists... I think the principle was afraid of him for some reason....  Yet these guys always showed up to our band practices, friendly and cordial as you can imagine, jocks would show up too, and this group and the jocks NEVER messed with one-another in those days...... here's the funny part..... I told people (and made DAMN well certain this was kept confidential)..

If you pay me 50 cents,  I'll make Chapman cry....

When Danny had a 6 pack in him, he'd get all histrionic when he heard Hey Joe, and purple haze, and start bawling like a 4 year old, either that or he got really excited and short-circuited I dunno... He was pretty emotional...HEHEHE

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Northeast United States runner up for the "Singing Hall of Shame".

Steven said, bikers... and I agree. There are a couple of biker bars in topeka, and I rarely see any fights in them. In fact bikers, being somewhat rebels and outcasts, themselves, tend to be more accepting of different types of people. I think that bar owner was looking to add a biker crowd, to increase his business, but didn't realize that it would drive his established customer base away. There's nothing wrong with being a "biker bar", but having a "biker night" in a family restaurant is a really bad idea.

It sounds like he learned a very expensive lesson.[/quote]

Yeah,  I think there needs to be a distinction here.... "Gang" violence IS a problem, yet that's SOMETHING different. To stigmatize group on bikes, as violence waiting to happen is just wrong...I doubt a bar is going to become another "Altamont" because of a row of motorcycles in 2006  

btw, going way back, who was it that got hit by an Angel ?  was that Bolin with AIrplane ?  I don't recall...got smacked by his security  LOL  ??



Well said !!!  and it's amazing how true it is.. I was amazed at how NON-judgmental of others most are even among the tougher groups I met of bikers... They don't harrass people because of "how they look", talk..there's really little bigotry at all among most of these folks I've known...

I suppose that's why I used the analogy of corporate social-climbing backstabbing white collar trash being what I loath... pseudo-elite social climbers that'd trash their own mother to get ahead, political BS.... people that have no loyalty to anyone, or no real constitution..THEM I can't stand, I never did like the corporate christmas parties with the bullshit, it's as if there has to be a chain of approval, with A looking at B, who looks at C, to see if D is cool enough to chat with, or be seen with...BLECH..  I also grew up in an area full of folks like that...what a horrible thing for a person to turn into... A social marionette

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Northeast United States runner up for the "Singing Hall of Shame".

Speaking of Bikes,  Do any of these companies still make bikes ?

Hodaka (off road),  Bridgestone, Norton ?

Any of you that are middle-aged.   Is this my imagination or did Harley Davidson for a few years make Two model's of their 65 CC....  One moped like, and the other an enduro ?  This was back when I was a kid, otherwise I wouldn't be asking about 65CC. Unless I'm confusing Enduro with a Honda 90 (minitrail) or 100 cc bike in the 60's early 70's... I don't recall

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Northeast United States runner up for the "Singing Hall of Shame".

LIke I said in my original first line, it's not always a deserved rep by any means.  It's more of a perception that a lot of non-bikers, people who are rarely around bikers may have.  I've played for bikers events over the years, one was a big biker convention up in Zillah, WA for about 500, and most of them have turned out fine as long as you don't get two clubs that don't like each other together.  Then things can get tense!  And stay away from the meth dealers -- then things will be OK.

Now Don  LMAO, Some of the outdoor venues I've played have probably been 5-15K or more.... Performing art's Pavilion's were sometimes partially enclosed for a few thousand, and God know's who was out there someplace...SPAC was huge, at least 10-15K waiting to see EW&F when we opened....Philly spectrum had to have been 10-15K when we opened for Marshall Tucker years back... Some of the Amphitheatre's down south were huge....Everyone was everywhere. I didn't see anyone with a T-shirt that said "Meth dealer" on it,  nor did I see anyone with a T shirt that said, "Kappy, about that blonde Leb Hash you asked me about around 1973", yet that I could've tolerated  :shock:  or even Thai Stick..... So obviously there was noone that sold anything HEH, dealer's are all over, You never know who they are !!!  and back in the early 70's the industry was FLOODED with junk... You could say no, yet couldn't avoid being within an arms length of it alot of the time.. even keeping the candy off've the guitar case was tough....
Seriously tho.... there are a few safeguards I always took.... If I had a beverage or sandwich, ALWAYS kept it in eye view, especially given what I knew about some of the bands I was sitting in with, bandmates at times...TRUST NOONE....during the 70's period when EVERYONE was high, snorting, shooting, tripping..etc.....ESPECIALLY during large open jam sessions and band practices..... I learned how to say no depending on setting...sometimes people felt uncomfortable if you didn't put a J to your mouth...When I stopped smoking pot, there were people that thought, "If you don't smoke, you might be a Narc"...It was a sick period...almost noone was straight...every other phrase was "No thanks, I'm straight... don't smoke"... "No, can't do that anymore, but thanks".... "No, med probs, but thanks".... YOU CAN'T avoid people in certain venues because you don't know who they are...Few that didn't know us would approach us given the layout of a stage, or pavilion, and the dealers were often people and friends of (whomever) working in the venue....everyone was wheeling, dealing, dosing, snorting, God... I got squeemish even seeing toe jam activity in alcoves.....YECH..... I did so much junk in my day, I made up my mind NEVER EVER... and I can be in a room among mother superior and her delivery crew....and the stuff wouldn't get in my personal space, It just can't happen, yet other's lifestyles...well, I suppose there are never guarantee's that in a certain environment someone involved in shady activity is going to cause a violent scene...yet It doubtful those of us that are straight and older ever need to worry about activity of those that deal personally..We survived the 60's and 70's...We won't get hurt now, we are useless to dealers  LOL ...and everyone was packing when possible too..that's what scared me the most...Loaded weapon's on loaded men, I don't remember an abundance of metal detectors in the early days....and what's more dangerous than all that for me...... ALCOHOL.... amazing but true...scary thing is, haven't had a drink as I've said in over 25 years..... I down a shot now,  I have no way of knowing if I'll die of toxicity....weird to think, yet true....  We keep falling apart even after we stop...

I welcome drugs today, about as much as I welcome an armed person to put a bullet in my skull.... I know damn well it WON'T happen...  My biggest fear was getting dosed with LSD-25 when that was around, wasn't common but it was the talk of the area when someone had some, I was terrified someone would dose me with that stuff....... God forbid, they can't even shoot you down with thorazine if someone doses you with that... It's affects have to run their course.... I've always been petrified of the hallucinogens,  especially after I met Timothy Leary......At that point I realized just how dangerous certain drugs can be.....and I did some strong stuff... Yet LSD scared the &)%^ out've me... especially being anxiety prone, and freaking out hallucinating on such a small amount of THC as found in pot.....I'm either super sensitive to hallucinogen's, or allergic to something.... Not sure..... Yet I always believes one trip of LSD, that'd be the end of me...terrified of a long bad trip... Don, you ever get dosed ?  I'm sure I did..... someone had to have put something in a beer of mine once....that couldn't have been my normal brain chemistry even when it's abnormal..... something wasn't natural about that 36 hour period...

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Northeast United States runner up for the "Singing Hall of Shame".