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Brand new setup for larger Venues
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Author:  petervz [ Tue Mar 07, 2006 3:57 am ]
Post subject:  Brand new setup for larger Venues
We have recently scored a big contract with one of the largest casinos in NZ for hosting Karaoke nights. The attendance would be between 100-200 people. Now I need your help on choosing the right gear and would appreciate some recommendations. Currently we are running the following:

1) Crown XLS-602 Amp
2) Beringer Eurorack UB-1222FX
2) 2x FBT Jolly Series 300W Passive Speakers
   http://www.fbt.it/Inglese/pae/speaker/Jolly/index.asp
4) 4x CAVS 203G Super CD+G Players
5) Share Sm58, both wired and cordless

I would like to buy a complete new set and use the above system for other venues. Definitely want to stay with Crown amps, but need your advice wether to proceed with Active Speakers instead and drop the power amp or not. Ideally, would like to get bit of both, great vocal reproduction as well as awesome sound. Do I need a sub and monitor speakers? How about adding the dbx equalizer? For fast song processing do we need some sort of a jukebox with cdg's already preloaded? The stage is approx. 10 x 5 metres and 1 metre high. Our budget is $5K.

What would be the ideal setup in that price range? Any feedback would highly appreciated. THANKS A LOT GUYS!!!
Author:  jamkaraoke [ Tue Mar 07, 2006 5:51 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Brand new setup for larger Venues
I would suggest for a set up like that - a SUB or two would be required.
Then again depending on the layout and where you need to throw the sound
2 or maybe even a  4 speaker main  set up. If you go conventional (amp - speakers)

Crown CE4000 AMP to push your subs and a CE2000 for your mains. (sticking with Crown)

Speakers are a personally preferance but definatley get some 15" mains versus 12" -The price differential is not that great and you may need them in the future without  the subs .  My suggestions based on my own experiance is I like Peavey SPEAKERS.  Try SP2's for your mains and a 1 SP18" for your sub.
Stick with some MICS from Shure  and you may want to upgrade your mixer --even though I use the exact same one and have no problems..?  Then as far as a player --- You may want to go completely digital MP3 + MP3+G's . This allows you quick turn around on singers - rotation management - historical data on singers.
etc etc.  Not to mention less to carry and handle. again A WHOLE OTHER TOPIC.

GOOD LUCK !!!!
Author:  jamkaraoke [ Tue Mar 07, 2006 5:53 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Brand new setup for larger Venues
I forgot --YES get some stage monitors since your mains will be most likely up from in a stage setup !!
Author:  TopherM [ Tue Mar 07, 2006 6:55 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Brand new setup for larger Venues
I play to about 100-125 peeps a night and here is my set-up:

(2) Yamaha S115V main cabs (15", 500 watts)  $330 each
(1) Yamaha BR15 monitor cab (15", 280 watts) $220
Yamaha P5000S power amp for the mains (2700 watts total power) $596
Samson Servo 300 power amp for the monitor (300 watts bridged)  $180
BBE 382 sonic enhancer $99
Samson Expedition 500 watt powered subwoofer $499
Numark 35G CDG player $250
(2) Shure SM58 mics $99 each
Yamaha MG16/6FX mixing board $376

I have everything racked (mixer and player in one rack and everything else in another). I have a 19" LCD monitor for the song lyrics that everyone loves.

With cables, poles, racks, and everything else, it costs about $4500 and I am extremely partial to my system :) It is the 2nd best in the karoake market here in Tampa Bay (there is a chain of karaoke themed bars here in Tampa bay and that guy has about a $20,000 system, which he doesn't know how to use properly, of course).
Author:  Lonman [ Tue Mar 07, 2006 9:29 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Brand new setup for larger Venues
petervz @ Tue Mar 07, 2006 3:57 am wrote:
We have recently scored a big contract with one of the largest casinos in NZ for hosting Karaoke nights. The attendance would be between 100-200 people. Now I need your help on choosing the right gear and would appreciate some recommendations. Currently we are running the following:

1) Crown XLS-602 Amp
2) Beringer Eurorack UB-1222FX
2) 2x FBT Jolly Series 300W Passive Speakers
   http://www.fbt.it/Inglese/pae/speaker/Jolly/index.asp
4) 4x CAVS 203G Super CD+G Players
5) Share Sm58, both wired and cordless

I would like to buy a complete new set and use the above system for other venues. Definitely want to stay with Crown amps, but need your advice wether to proceed with Active Speakers instead and drop the power amp or not. Ideally, would like to get bit of both, great vocal reproduction as well as awesome sound. Do I need a sub and monitor speakers? How about adding the dbx equalizer? For fast song processing do we need some sort of a jukebox with cdg's already preloaded? The stage is approx. 10 x 5 metres and 1 metre high. Our budget is $5K.

What would be the ideal setup in that price range? Any feedback would highly appreciated. THANKS A LOT GUYS!!!


Actually duplicate what you have here & add a couple subs & another amp.  Make sure either the subs or amp have built in crossover.
Author:  petervz [ Tue Mar 07, 2006 1:23 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Brand new setup for larger Venues
Thanks for that, definitely staying with Crown amps, what solution do you have in mind for digital MP3 + MP3+G's?
Author:  Lonman [ Tue Mar 07, 2006 1:34 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Brand new setup for larger Venues
petervz @ Tue Mar 07, 2006 1:23 pm wrote:
Thanks for that, definitely staying with Crown amps, what solution do you have in mind for digital MP3 + MP3+G's?


Buy the discs then convert them yourself.
Author:  petervz [ Tue Mar 07, 2006 1:39 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Brand new setup for larger Venues
Makes sense, you guys are really awesome! Tks :yes:
Author:  Keith02 [ Tue Mar 07, 2006 1:44 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Brand new setup for larger Venues
You got two choices on mixers....Use one more reliable for more bucks or buy a spare 1222 fxpro....I got the UB1222fxpro myself, so i know it is perfect for karaoke...But I'm a worry wart and would want a spare if I had a well paying show like yours.....@ $179, it would be worth the price for the peace of mind to me.....Or you can spend 2 X $179 for a single mixer that has better reputation for reliability.

You are gonna want mains that are 15's with horns...600 program watts minimum....You will need at least one 18" sub. Yeah, Peavey's are great speaks, but so are several others.

You fersure want at least one monitor and a 31 band EQ for the monitor to control feedback...EQ on the mains is not nesessary, but good if you have it.

Consider running mono off the mixer....Some mixers have a XLR mono out to make it easy....Mono will allow all to hear everything with no stereo separation....stereo makes it sound like only half of the show to those seated on the sides.

Mono will allow you either lots more power from your amps, or less amps....Run your bass mono either way...If you run mono you can get away with a single 31 band dual EQ...one side for monitors, one for mains...

Congrats on the new gig!
Author:  petervz [ Tue Mar 07, 2006 2:13 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Brand new setup for larger Venues
Thanks Keith, yeah you're quite right about the peace of mind for the mixer, personally I've never had any issues with the UB1222fxpro but you never know. I would hate it failing during the show - it would be over for us. You mentioned that for 2x $179 there is a more reliable mixer - what make and model are you thinking about?

I see that everybody is recommending Peavy's for the mains, how about Mackie's or JBL's? Active or passive going with an amp? Also what kind of sub should I get, what brand and model? Here in NZ, there are no Karaoke/DJ stores and I can't test them or have a look at them. Pretty much, I'll be working of this forum and some research from the web, before I import the equipment from US...just a bit hard.

I am thinking of buying dbx 1231 equilizer. any thoughts about that?

Tks
Author:  Lonman [ Tue Mar 07, 2006 3:09 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Brand new setup for larger Venues
petervz @ Tue Mar 07, 2006 2:13 pm wrote:
Thanks Keith, yeah you're quite right about the peace of mind for the mixer, personally I've never had any issues with the UB1222fxpro but you never know. I would hate it failing during the show - it would be over for us. You mentioned that for 2x $179 there is a more reliable mixer - what make and model are you thinking about?

I see that everybody is recommending Peavy's for the mains, how about Mackie's or JBL's? Active or passive going with an amp? Also what kind of sub should I get, what brand and model? Here in NZ, there are no Karaoke/DJ stores and I can't test them or have a look at them. Pretty much, I'll be working of this forum and some research from the web, before I import the equipment from US...just a bit hard.

I am thinking of buying dbx 1231 equilizer. any thoughts about that?

Tks


I still say you should duplicate what you got only adding the subs & extra amp.  You already know that system, no sense in trying to relearn a entirely new set-up??
The dbx 1231 is a killer eq - maybe a little overkill for karaoke, take a look at the dbx 231.
Author:  DannyG2006 [ Tue Mar 07, 2006 3:45 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Brand new setup for larger Venues
I agre with Lonman, why force yourself to learn another setup if you don't have to.
Author:  Keith02 [ Tue Mar 07, 2006 4:41 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Brand new setup for larger Venues
If I was in NZ, then I would worry about who had the best service...Everything breaks...you can't beat having great service when it does....If there is a Behringer retailer there, then go with Behringer cause now they have this new warranty program where they GIVE you a new intem if your old one fails...That will prove to

You can make just about any PA sound good if you mind equipment specs and do proper matching, and then control gain structure....You CAN polish a turd, as they say....or you can stink up the most expensive stuff....all that matters in the end is it sounds great and you can depend on it.
Author:  petervz [ Tue Mar 07, 2006 6:46 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Brand new setup for larger Venues
Agree with Lonman, we'll go ahead duplicating what we've got + new amp, sub and a nice dbx unit.  Lonman, any recommendations on a particular sub? Also my only concern is if the 12" 300W FBT's will do the job or do I have to buy 15"s? Again to close it off, if you guys think I should use the 15" for the mains - which ones should I buy that produce a nice punch and good vocals? Need to get the gear shipped this Friday!!! Thanks heaps.
Author:  Lonman [ Tue Mar 07, 2006 7:45 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Brand new setup for larger Venues
petervz @ Tue Mar 07, 2006 6:46 pm wrote:
Agree with Lonman, we'll go ahead duplicating what we've got + new amp, sub and a nice dbx unit.  Lonman, any recommendations on a particular sub? Also my only concern is if the 12" 300W FBT's will do the job or do I have to buy 15"s? Again to close it off, if you guys think I should use the 15" for the mains - which ones should I buy that produce a nice punch and good vocals? Need to get the gear shipped this Friday!!! Thanks heaps.


As long as you have a couple good subs under them, the 12's should more than adequate.  Your amp is pushing 370 watts per channel (740 watts total) into them.  You subs should have at least double that rating.  
What I would do is actually get a couple 18" 8 ohm sub cabinets (something like http://www.americanmusical.com/item--i- ... 6_387.html) & run them parallel bridged through something like the Crown CE2000.  This will push approx 1900 watts @ 4ohms to the subs.
Now you will need an external crossover such as the dbx 223XL (easy to work & set).  This will work with the entire system not just the subs.  The mixer out into the eq, the eq out into the crossover & the high frequency out of x-over goes to the XLS602 & Jolly mains & low freq out of x-over goes to CE2000 amp & subs.
I would actually not get the eq to start (can always add later if needed which you may or may not, they are nice to have to tune a room), you may find with this set-up you'd need less eq - especially in the low end & your mains should sound much fuller, crisper & cleaner as they aren't going to be trying to reproduce all the low end frequencies!
Author:  petervz [ Tue Mar 07, 2006 9:06 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Brand new setup for larger Venues
Beautiful, had a look at the subs and like the specs. Just in the middle of putting an order through. Buying the subs, Crown CE2000 and dbx 223XL. Can't wait for the gear to arrive and give it a kick!! I'll definitely keep you posted once it's all up and running. Thank you very much for making this happen. Cheers, all the best!
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