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| Need Powered Mixer Advice https://mail.karaokescene.net/forums/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=6385 |
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| Author: | Flipper [ Tue Feb 21, 2006 2:47 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Need Powered Mixer Advice |
Looking at the following Powered Mixers: Mackie 808M or 808S Yamaha EX5000 Portability and Quality is my main goal here. Effects are important as well Anyone have experience with these units? |
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| Author: | Lonman [ Tue Feb 21, 2006 2:53 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Need Powered Mixer Advice |
I like the Mackie 808 series. Stereo if you need stereo or mono will do most gigs. |
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| Author: | karyoker [ Tue Feb 21, 2006 3:15 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Need Powered Mixer Advice |
Alot of Kj's in this area have run 808m's for years... Very reliable and good resale value.. |
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| Author: | Guest [ Tue Feb 21, 2006 3:21 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Need Powered Mixer Advice |
Normally I hate all powered mixers, but the Mackie 808 series seems to be really good stuff. Ok, please don't think that I am assuming you don't know what I am fixing to state, but I see everyday where powered mixer owners buy too weak a mixer for their mains. Please, please make certain that the one you select will provide enuff real power for your mains.....Make sure to brush up on how to read the specs...you want to match amp power @ RMS(continous) ratings to speaker power @ program ratings. In other words, if the powered mixer claims it will produce 200 watts RMS or "continous" power when stereo at 8 Ohms, then you want speakers that are rated at or not much more than 200 watts "program"....If instead you select speakers rated 200 watts "continous", then the mixer amp will clip fersure when you ask it to actually play program materials at higher sound levels. -Amps are rated at RMS(continous) and peak power output. -Speakers are rated at Continuos, Program, and peak power handling ability So alway only use only speaker "program" ratings when attempting to match the correct speaker to your amps RMS(continous) rating...But that's only when you are matching your typical 2 way full range mains to the mixer amp. It get's even more complicated if you are biamping(which you will never do with a powered mixer) How about if you post the full info on your speakers before you select the mixer. Guys like me and Llonman (and a few others )can look at it and perhaps suggest if the powered mixer you want will actually work with your mains. Powered mixer buyers not only need to correctly match mixer features to their needs, but also mixer amp power to their speakers...I would hate to see you buy a great mixer that just won't work well with your speakers. |
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| Author: | Lonman [ Tue Feb 21, 2006 3:40 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Need Powered Mixer Advice |
The 808S & 808M will push 300 watts into 8 ohms, 450 into 4 ohms & 600 into 2 ohms. Quote: It get's even more complicated if you are biamping(which you will never do with a powered mixer)
You can actually bi-amp with a powered mixer, it would still require external crossovers & at least another amp. But it would run the mixer out (pre-out) to an external crossover & whichever output on the crossover (chances are it would be highs) would run back into the power amp in on the mixer then the mixer speaker out would run to the high frequency driver & the other output of the crossover would run into the external amp feeding the low drivers. |
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| Author: | Guest [ Tue Feb 21, 2006 4:15 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Need Powered Mixer Advice |
Lonman @ Tue Feb 21, 2006 5:40 pm wrote: The 808S & 808M will push 300 watts into 8 ohms, 450 into 4 ohms & 600 into 2 ohms. Yep, it can be done, but as you demonstrated, it gets really complicated and is limited by the mixer amp.
Quote: It get's even more complicated if you are biamping(which you will never do with a powered mixer) You can actually bi-amp with a powered mixer, it would still require external crossovers & at least another amp. But it would run the mixer out (pre-out) to an external crossover & whichever output on the crossover (chances are it would be highs) would run back into the power amp in on the mixer then the mixer speaker out would run to the high frequency driver & the other output of the crossover would run into the external amp feeding the low drivers. I hate powered mixers mostly cause they tend to lie about their actual power ratings or hide them with fancy ad-copy.... It's usually the upstart band that uses one and then grows instanly beyond it....Experienced Karaoke folks with a clue can select the perfect powered mixer that will serve them for years as long as they never attempt to outgrow it.... Most KJ's will never play outdoors nor will they need to biamp/triamp or attempt to fill a football field at high SPLs..... For them, a powered mixer can be exactly what they need as long as it will support their inputs and outs and produce enuff power to match their mains. |
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| Author: | Lonman [ Tue Feb 21, 2006 6:16 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Need Powered Mixer Advice |
Keith01 @ Tue Feb 21, 2006 4:15 pm wrote: For them, a powered mixer can be exactly what they need as long as it will support their inputs and outs and produce enuff power to match their mains.
That's the whole deal right there, most powered mixers DON'T push enough power for the main speakers. |
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| Author: | karyoker [ Tue Feb 21, 2006 6:27 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Need Powered Mixer Advice |
Quote: That's the whole deal right there, most powered mixers DON'T push enough power for the main
Yea thats why we like the powered speakers we can "marry" our systems and stack speakers. The cactus canyon here in greeley has 18 of the old eons ceiling mounted and some great big bass cabs sitting on the dance floor driven by a crown 1k or 2k (I think) It is a pretty awesome system.. |
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| Author: | Flipper [ Tue Feb 21, 2006 8:14 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Need Powered Mixer Advice |
808M 808S 340W per channel 4 ohms no more than 0.15% THD 240W per channel 8 ohms no more than 0.10% THD These are continuous power specs from Mackies Site Speakers I have in Inventory: 2 Yorkville Y150's (rated 300watts program power) 2 Peavey Impulse 1012 (rated 700 watts continuous) 2 Peavey Impulse 100 (no info from peavey, local dealer says 300 watts program) The problem is that everyone uses different ratings on the speakers and it is very confusing to match up. I was at guitar center tonight testing the 808S and they could not tell me if it was a good match for my speakers either. The knowlege of the guys here in Portland seems to be quite limited. Any suggestions on matching with these speakers? The primary reason for a powered mixer is portability, and gig layouts. I cannot afford to go the powered speaker route at this time. I have plenty of money invested in passives and they are all in excellent shape and fit my gigs perfectly. |
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| Author: | karyoker [ Tue Feb 21, 2006 8:50 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Need Powered Mixer Advice |
The basic rule is you want an amp to handle twice the power of the rms capabilities of the the speakers.. I have actually run the 808m with jbl soundfactors 2500's outside with no problems We didnt run the mains at max... The 808 m I have seen run with speakers that technically i would say dont do it .. 2 years later they are still doing it.., I have seen speakers go bad not the 808.. |
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| Author: | Lonman [ Tue Feb 21, 2006 8:54 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Need Powered Mixer Advice |
Flipper @ Tue Feb 21, 2006 8:14 pm wrote: 808M
808S 340W per channel 4 ohms no more than 0.15% THD 240W per channel 8 ohms no more than 0.10% THD These are continuous power specs from Mackies Site Speakers I have in Inventory: 2 Yorkville Y150's (rated 300watts program power) 2 Peavey Impulse 1012 (rated 700 watts continuous) 2 Peavey Impulse 100 (no info from peavey dealers says 300 watts program) The problem is that everyone uses different ratings on the speakers and it is very confusing to match up. I was at guitar center tonight testing the 808S and they could not tell me if it was a good match for my speakers either. The knowlege of the guys here in Portland seems to be quite limited. Any suggestions on matching with these speakers? The primary reason for a powered mixer is portability, and gig layouts. I cannot afford to go the powered speaker route at this time. I have plenty of money invested in passives and they are all in excellent shape and fit my gigs perfectly. As a very generic rule - doesn't apply to all, but many: Whatever the "peak" is - say 1200 watts The program rating is usually half of that - 600 watts & continuous (usually RMS) rating is half that 300 watts which is the comfortable rating. Also WATCH THE OHMS. Most speakers are generally 8 ohms but some are made as 4 ohms - keep that in mind when looking for an amp as well, what is the amp rated for the speakers ohms rating (impedence)? Generally you want the amp to be able to push the middle rating as you probably won't ever GET to the 600 watt capacity, but you will be pushing 300 watts comfortably where the speaker is comfortably rated. But in case it gets to the 600 watt mark, it will be able to take it as well. So those Peavey Impulse 1012s handle 700 watts RMS, 1400 watts Program & 2800 watts peak so you amp for these should at LEAST push 1000 watts per side to make these work to their full potential. The Impulse 100 handle 175 RMS, 350 program & 700 peak. So you'd want the amp to push in the 350 watt range - these ratings are PER speaker mind you, not watt the amp is capable of in both channels combined. The Yorks ONLY list program power so they probably are rated about 150 watts continuous & 600 peak. The amp should still push about 300 watts per side. So out of your speakers, I would say the Yorks or the Impulse 100! |
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| Author: | Steven Kaplan [ Tue Feb 21, 2006 9:02 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Need Powered Mixer Advice |
Is another term for the highest wattage rating also "bridged" power at low Ohm setting ? |
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| Author: | Lonman [ Tue Feb 21, 2006 9:15 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Need Powered Mixer Advice |
Steven Kaplan @ Tue Feb 21, 2006 9:02 pm wrote: Is another term for the highest wattage rating also "bridged" power at low Ohm setting ?
True but that's another ballgame altogether. Many amps don't bridge lower than 4 ohms while most are limited to 8 ohms. |
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| Author: | Flipper [ Tue Feb 21, 2006 9:31 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Need Powered Mixer Advice |
all my speakers are 8 ohm Yorkvilles are the ones that I have in the venue where the Mackie Mixer would go so that is great. By the way I could not believe the difference in the effects on the 808 and My DFX12 which I use for my second system. Thank all of you for your help. It's been a long time since I have purchased a new system its great to have a forum to come and get advice from other professionals in my industry. |
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| Author: | metalgod [ Tue Feb 21, 2006 9:43 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Need Powered Mixer Advice |
Go with the Yamaha emx5000 |
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| Author: | Guest [ Wed Feb 22, 2006 5:07 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Need Powered Mixer Advice |
After seeing your inventory of speakers, I don't understand why you want a powered mixer. You can purchase amps that that will allow you much more flex and the ability to use any of your speakers for less $$ than a powered mixer. You gotta remember that the venue will determine which speaker you need. From there you select amps. you have a range of speakers that can fill a wide choice of venues. Why limit yourself with a power miixer? |
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| Author: | Babs [ Wed Feb 22, 2006 6:37 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Need Powered Mixer Advice |
I just bought a 808M. I love it!! It definitely is a that and a bag of chips. This is the 1st powered mixer I've used that when I set the equilizer I can hear the difference. I run my player through the 7&8 channel. That is a must. |
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| Author: | Lonman [ Wed Feb 22, 2006 7:53 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Need Powered Mixer Advice |
Babs @ Wed Feb 22, 2006 6:37 am wrote: This is the 1st powered mixer I've used that when I set the equilizer
I can hear the difference. PLEASE tell me you don't use a smile pattern on your EQ :( |
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| Author: | Flipper [ Wed Feb 22, 2006 9:36 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Need Powered Mixer Advice |
Keith Please remember that I have 2 systems so this speaker inventory is for both. My thinking here is that If I purchase a separate amp and mixer I now have to rack mount them which adds to the cost. When I rack mount them the overall dimensions particularly the height will not work well with the two gigs that I do...i.e. the counter heights are tall on one gig and it will be difficult to view and adjust the mixer. My other gig is sit down in a booth only (can't stand) the rack mount will be too tall to view and adjust as well. Both of these gigs are long term (been there over 3 years each) I could go to a roll around rack system for that would work for gig 1 but not for gig 2 kinda hard to explain the arrangement with both gigs with regard to space available and the acutal physical setup, but there is a method to my madness. My previous set up for both of these gigs was a DJM806 Yorkville powered mixer which was perfect for both gigs. I call this profile a lay down style of mixer. The Mackie 808 or the Yamaha EMX5000 would work just fine in both gigs. |
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| Author: | Guest [ Wed Feb 22, 2006 2:30 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Need Powered Mixer Advice |
I understand better now. The 808 should tickle you, it's a decent mixer. I don't know about the Yammerhammer-never heard one of tinkered with it. Those 300 watt speakers will work ok as long as you don't boost the lows at higher SPL's. Lots of folks run amps with 75% speaker program rating with no problem as long as they don't boost the bass... You need to remember that running your mains in full range mode requires a little more amp due to the built in crossovers. They tend to absord some power and convert it to heat energy whereas the same amp would deliver more to the speaker if ran thru an active outboard crossover.....So even 400 watts per channel into 300 watt speakers is totally safe when ran full range into speakers with internal crossovers. |
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