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Outboard vocal FX discussion
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Author:  Guest [ Fri Feb 17, 2006 12:16 am ]
Post subject:  Outboard vocal FX discussion
Hello,

I'm still attempting to build killer vocals for both live and recording....So far I have a decent tube mic pre amp, comp and EQ channel with the ART Pro Channel...Now I'm shopping reverb and other FX, especially reverb...I'm looking for quality at an affordable price....I prefer it be a stand alone outboard unit, insertable or serial capable, single or dual channel...Up to $400-$500.

What do you guys suggest?

Thanks!
Author:  Steven Kaplan [ Fri Feb 17, 2006 12:36 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Outboard vocal FX discussion
Look up the specs of the zoom 2020 multieffects processor, and if you like it you can have mine.. I'm not overly fond of it. I like wetter mods and effects such as the older MXR, Electroharmonix stomp boxes.. to me the multiprocessor's tend to be dryer, yet you can set various degree's of reverb just buy setting different user-sets and parameters... you should be able to find the specs on this pedal type effects unit online, in order to determine if it's something you can use.. Not sure if it'd work for you, but if you can find one of those old Fender reverb units, and something with the Hammond spring reverb....those are pretty nice...There are stand-alone older units...The hammond reverb units are quite nice...
Author:  Guest [ Fri Feb 17, 2006 12:47 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Outboard vocal FX discussion
Steven Kaplan @ Fri Feb 17, 2006 2:36 am wrote:
Look up the specs of the zoom 2020 multieffects processor, and if you like it you can have mine.. I'm not overly fond of it. I like wetter mods and effects such as the older MXR, Electroharmonix stomp boxes.. to me the multiprocessor's tend to be dryer, yet you can set various degree's of reverb just buy setting different user-sets and parameters... you should be able to find the specs on this pedal type effects unit online, in order to determine if it's something you can use.. Not sure if it'd work for you, but if you can find one of those old Fender reverb units, and something with the Hammond spring reverb....those are pretty nice...There are stand-alone older units...The hammond reverb units are quite nice...
Thanks good buddy, but I ain't looking for a stomp box..I want something rackable with lots of knobs and flashing led lights to impress my underage dates LMAO ...you guitar guys can not only play with both hands, you also use your feet....i ain't there yet.
Author:  Guest [ Fri Feb 17, 2006 2:01 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Outboard vocal FX discussion
Steven Kaplan @ Fri Feb 17, 2006 2:36 am wrote:
and something with the Hammond spring reverb....those are pretty nice...There are stand-alone older units...The hammond reverb units are quite nice...
Hammond, huh?...Ok.....I gotta go look...Thanks Steven!

Hey Yankee friend o mine,
Author:  Lonman [ Fri Feb 17, 2006 2:08 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Outboard vocal FX discussion
Check into the Lexicon MPX550, may just fit your bill, great for recording.
Author:  Steven Kaplan [ Fri Feb 17, 2006 2:56 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Outboard vocal FX discussion
The hammond reverb units were actual spring reverb units tho... Doubt you'd find that in Rack mount, or even stomp, these were stand-alone units...Actual reverb tanks (of sorts), not digital devices...You know, that type of unit that gave off the sound of a thunder storm everytime you touched it.  Yet the reverb was pretty good IMHO...
Author:  Steven Kaplan [ Fri Feb 17, 2006 3:01 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Outboard vocal FX discussion
This might be of interest Keith, I'm sure you likely already know this, but still regarding reverberation... It's interesting..
I think this is from a sound enhancements site...Not positive..


HISTORY
The Reverb product line evolved from the Hammond Organ Company, where the Reverb was originally used in organs. The company later began marketing the unit to amplifier manufacturers. In 1962, Leo Fender, introduced what was then called the "Hammond Reverb", in Fender's, now legendary, "Twin Reverb" amp. This established reverb in guitar amps from that time forward. In 1971, Hammond Organ moved Reverb production to its Accutronics division located in Geneva IL. Slowly the "Hammond Reverb" became known as the "Accutronics Reverb". In 1977, Accutronics became a member of the Marmon Group of companies. In 1982 all of Accutronic's divisions were consolidated into one building located in Cary, IL. In 1986 the company acquired OC Electronics, thus becoming the only domestic manufacturer of Reverb units. In 1989, the company acquired the "Morley" trade name from Tel-Ray Electronics in Hollywood, CA. In January 1990, Accutronics, Inc. moved its Reverb and Morley divisions into a separate facility in Cary, IL. In May, 1991, the Reverb and Morley divisions of Accutronics were incorporated into the entity, Sound Enhancements, Inc. In 1999, Sound Enhancements, became a member of the Stainless Industrial Company. In 2001, Sound Enhancements, Inc. acquired Ebtech. As of August 2005, the company name was changed to Sound Enhancement Products, Inc and is currently an independantly owned company.
Author:  karyoker [ Fri Feb 17, 2006 3:07 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Outboard vocal FX discussion
Keith for recording vocals I come directly out of the 266xl into 3/4 of the 44.. In the 44 cntrl panel you can pan over for 2 tracks I just want a good clean recording Then in software like sonar3 the fun begins I first eq certain singers (after awhile you know each singer) with a shelf hi or low rolloff for example.  Then play over and over using different fx and using chorus during the right parts.. After using fx and mixing down over and over you got a better idea how to do them live at a show but I do record with no fx at all...
Author:  Guest [ Thu Feb 23, 2006 1:08 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Outboard vocal FX discussion
I just ordered the Lexicon MX200 from Sweetwater.....We'll see how it does.

Karyoker, thanks for the recording tips....I'm concerned with live for now, but will save your suggestions for when I get off my butt and try the recording thang.
Author:  Guest [ Sat Feb 25, 2006 10:52 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Outboard vocal FX discussion
Woo Hooo,

It turns out the Lexicon MX200 is a brand new product....It was just introduced and actually hit the shelves a week before I ordered it....I'm excited now after talking with the designer. He explained it is nothing like their MPX line and regrets that the title "MX" sounds so much like MPX..The MPX series didn't do too well, but he assures me the MX200 will correct that....I gotta wait til next Wed to rack it up....AAAARRRRGGGGHHHH!
Author:  Guest [ Tue Feb 28, 2006 8:54 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Outboard vocal FX discussion
I just got it!....And the box isn't smushed for once!

Sweetwater is so COOL!...They always toss a handful of assorted candy in the box with your order and at least one new magazine related to professional music...Now I got packing peanuts all over the place and something new to play with. :dancin:
Author:  Guest [ Tue Feb 28, 2006 1:04 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Outboard vocal FX discussion
Lonman!....HELP!

How do I patch this puppy in?...I'm going to take the manual to work tonight and try to make heads or tails of it......It's a dual unit.....I want to run it off two mic channels, one will have the tube pre ahead of it or inserted, the other will use mixer strip pre......I'm lost so far. :(
Author:  Lonman [ Tue Feb 28, 2006 1:16 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Outboard vocal FX discussion
Keith01 @ Tue Feb 28, 2006 1:04 pm wrote:
Lonman!....HELP!

How do I patch this puppy in?...I'm going to take the manual to work tonight and try to make heads or tails of it......It's a dual unit.....I want to run it off two mic channels, one will have the tube pre ahead of it or inserted, the other will use mixer strip pre......I'm lost so far. :(


The only problem I can forsee using a channel for each mic is that the effects turn stereo when both inputs are used which may give a different effect on the 2nd mic channel - I may be wrong, I generally don't use effect via inserts uless it's just 1 channel.  What mixer do you have again?  If you can, you would want to use the Aux sends for the effects.  However this looks like a "True" dual processor which would give each side individual control.  Looking at the spec sheet you would need to set it into "cascade" mode which will give 2 separate inputs & outputs without them mixing together.  http://www.lexiconpro.com/mx200/MX200.pdf

Don't hook it up inline with the mics, how to hook it up via inserts would be just simply a TRS 1/4" to dual 1/4" TS (insert cable).  Plut the stereo side into the insert of the mic, send to the input of the MX & return to the output of the MX - do the same for the other mic.
Author:  Guest [ Tue Feb 28, 2006 10:40 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Outboard vocal FX discussion
Lonman @ Tue Feb 28, 2006 3:16 pm wrote:
Keith01 @ Tue Feb 28, 2006 1:04 pm wrote:
Lonman!....HELP!

How do I patch this puppy in?...I'm going to take the manual to work tonight and try to make heads or tails of it......It's a dual unit.....I want to run it off two mic channels, one will have the tube pre ahead of it or inserted, the other will use mixer strip pre......I'm lost so far. :(


The only problem I can forsee using a channel for each mic is that the effects turn stereo when both inputs are used which may give a different effect on the 2nd mic channel - I may be wrong, I generally don't use effect via inserts uless it's just 1 channel.  What mixer do you have again?  If you can, you would want to use the Aux sends for the effects.  However this looks like a "True" dual processor which would give each side individual control.  Looking at the spec sheet you would need to set it into "cascade" mode which will give 2 separate inputs & outputs without them mixing together.  http://www.lexiconpro.com/mx200/MX200.pdf

Don't hook it up inline with the mics, how to hook it up via inserts would be just simply a TRS 1/4" to dual 1/4" TS (insert cable).  Plut the stereo side into the insert of the mic, send to the input of the MX & return to the output of the MX - do the same for the other mic.
That makes sense....Hmmmmm

I got  a danged blasted UB1222fx-pro.....It has 2 sends on each strip....one is labled monitor(which is prefader), and the other is labled FX(which is post fader)...It also has inserts and line in jack on each mono strip.

It also has Aux 1 & 2 L/R return jacks, and Mon/Fx send jacks....

Then is has separate slider for FX send with twisty above it labled FX to mains and FX mute button.

I'm going to try to patch it in series after the  outboard preamp and bring it in via insert return and see what happens.
Author:  Lonman [ Tue Feb 28, 2006 10:59 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Outboard vocal FX discussion
Keith01 @ Tue Feb 28, 2006 10:40 pm wrote:
I got  a danged blasted UB1222fx-pro.....It has 2 sends on each strip....one is labled monitor(which is prefader), and the other is labled FX(which is post fader)...It also has inserts and line in jack on each mono strip.

It also has Aux 1 & 2 L/R return jacks, and Mon/Fx send jacks....

Then is has separate slider for FX send with twisty above it labled FX to mains and FX mute button.

I'm going to try to patch it in series after the  outboard preamp and bring it in via insert return and see what happens.


For live use, i'd still use the Aux 2 send into the mono channel, set it for dual mono & run it stereo return (or whatever the configuration would be to get both channels to return).  Usually your mics live are going to use the same effects anyway, this way you can still use two separate effects for each mic (of course both mics will get the same effect - obviously.
Author:  Guest [ Tue Feb 28, 2006 11:05 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Outboard vocal FX discussion
Lonman @ Wed Mar 01, 2006 12:59 am wrote:
Keith01 @ Tue Feb 28, 2006 10:40 pm wrote:
I got  a danged blasted UB1222fx-pro.....It has 2 sends on each strip....one is labled monitor(which is prefader), and the other is labled FX(which is post fader)...It also has inserts and line in jack on each mono strip.

It also has Aux 1 & 2 L/R return jacks, and Mon/Fx send jacks....

Then is has separate slider for FX send with twisty above it labled FX to mains and FX mute button.

I'm going to try to patch it in series after the  outboard preamp and bring it in via insert return and see what happens.


For live use, i'd still use the Aux 2 send into the mono channel, set it for dual mono & run it stereo return (or whatever the configuration would be to get both channels to return).  Usually your mics live are going to use the same effects anyway, this way you can still use two separate effects for each mic (of course both mics will get the same effect - obviously.
I most agree, except I don't see how to defeat the mixer's built in FX....That danged Aux 2 twisty is tied to the FX buss on the mixer...It's called FX infact, but at least it's post fader...I'll play with the thang configured like you suggest and see if I can get it sorted out...All I gotta do is scrounge up some more TRS patch cables tonight. :(

Thanks for the suggestions!
Author:  Guest [ Wed Mar 01, 2006 12:41 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Outboard vocal FX discussion
Wooo Hoooo!...I'm running it into the board via insert bypassing the outboard preamp for now.....Lonman, these Lexicon FX are SO fantastic compared to those built into my mixer....I'm sure you know that already, but this is a first for me.

And it is so easy to combine FX and cascade them, or make them separate for each mic....This is going to WORK!

Me very happy :D
Author:  EElvis [ Wed Mar 01, 2006 4:58 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Outboard vocal FX discussion
Sorry I was a little late on this one, But I got the TC Helicon Voiceworks. it does about everything except sing for you.
Author:  Jian [ Wed Mar 01, 2006 5:19 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Outboard vocal FX discussion
Dr. D @ 1st March 2006, 8:58 pm wrote:
Sorry I was a little late on this one, But I got the TC Helicon Voiceworks. it does about everything except sing for you.


Do you use it for your singers? I sure love to try that one. Heard a lot of good review on it.
Author:  Lonman [ Wed Mar 01, 2006 10:03 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Outboard vocal FX discussion
Keith01 @ Tue Feb 28, 2006 11:05 pm wrote:
I most agree, except I don't see how to defeat the mixer's built in FX....That danged Aux 2 twisty is tied to the FX buss on the mixer...It's called FX infact, but at least it's post fader...I'll play with the thang configured like you suggest and see if I can get it sorted out...All I gotta do is scrounge up some more TRS patch cables tonight. :(

Thanks for the suggestions!


Again, which mixer do you have?  The DFX12 if I recall - correct?  
<edit> No I didn't, you run the Behringer 1222.

K there isn't a way to mute the internal efx (per se), you would run the Aux 2 (FX send) into the mono of the Lexi & a dual mono return into one of the stereo channels   Hooking up this way also allows you to adjust each effect individually as far as eq as well.  
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