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Owners that can't, won't, don't promote or advertise.
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Author:  SwingcatKurt [ Sun Sep 04, 2005 9:48 am ]
Post subject:  Owners that can't, won't, don't promote or advertise.
Have you ever KJ/DJ'd  at a place where the owners simply wont do ANY kind of advertising or promotion of the entertainment(Karoake) even when you offer suggest ways that wont COST them anything? I've had the misfortune of having to deal with a couple of places like that. They just keep bumbling along with more than half empty rooms and wont even do somthing as simple as put a flyer up on the wall, not to mention a sandwich sign on a sidewalk, announcment on the marquee or a karaoke banner provided by the beer company, and god forbid even talking about a small newspaper add!! What have YOUR experiences been?? And did you ever get this kind of owner to SEE THE LIGHT and VALUE of ADVETISING the show??
Author:  TeriJo [ Sun Sep 04, 2005 12:50 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Owners that can't, won't, don't promote or advertise.
NOPE.  I'm not a KJ, but Live bands have the same problem.  Sometimes you can't even get them to put a darn sign in the window.

With live bands, however, the local radio stations usually keep a list of what's going on for the weekend (in my area anyway) and we can call them for free and tell them where we are playing.  I have no idea whether they do that for Karaoke or not, but it wouldn't hurt to check.

It's a mentality that you can't reason with, if ya figure out a way, let me know LOL
Author:  Catseyeview [ Sun Sep 04, 2005 7:35 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Owners that can't, won't, don't promote or advertise.
Been there done that all OVER the place!!  They expect you to do your show for next to nothing as well as do all the footwork and advertising yourself!!  Not only ridiculous but outrageous as well.  I've been in the biz just shy of 14 yrs now and the bar/club owners who are willing to pay for advertising or better yet (almost nonexistent!) offer to do so themselves are as extinct as dinosaurs.  But boy oh boy are they the first ones to b*tch if the tapes are down for the night!!  Common prob with no real solutions I'm afraid.  I've talked til I'm blue in the face about it!!!
Author:  TopherM [ Tue Sep 06, 2005 7:34 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Owners that can't, won't, don't promote or advertise.
I had this problem with the last bar owner I worked for.

I am of the opinion that it is the bar owner's job to get the patrons into the bar, then it is the KJs job to keep them there then keep them coming back.

This particular bar owner thought he was paying me to spend my free time away from the bar strumming up business for him, which is not my responcibility in my opinion.

Now, I do talk up my karoake nights with pretty much everyone I meet on days I am not working, and I hand out about 30 business cards for my show a week, so I'm sure I have a hand in getting 2-3 groups into the bar each night I work, but that is by my choice, I don't feel it is part of my job!! The guy I work for now totally understands this point, and advertises my show on the marquee as well as mentioning the karaoke nights on weekly coupons he sends out in two local coupon books. For a total of $65 a week, he sends out color coupons for 20 wings and a pitcher of beer for $11.99 to over 180,000 people in our metro area. The coupons ahve the bar logo and address, the coupon, and talk about the karaoke nights in small print at the bottom.  I first visited this bar through one of these coupons, and seeing how we have 100-150 people in the bar every karoake night, including Wednesdays, I'd say that something is working. He gets em in the bar, I keep them there and make sure they come back!!
Author:  lyquiddye [ Tue Sep 06, 2005 10:14 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Owners that can't, won't, don't promote or advertise.
I don't work for bars that don't work for me.

End of story

Let the bottom feeders KJ there.
Author:  knightshow [ Tue Sep 06, 2005 1:19 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Owners that can't, won't, don't promote or advertise.
sometimes you have no choice, dye! It's NOT a question of bottom feeding but of intense competition, and the bars have gotten LAZY...

damn you can be offensive at times!
Author:  Catseyeview [ Tue Sep 06, 2005 1:24 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Owners that can't, won't, don't promote or advertise.
Especially in smaller markets.  I have been a bit luckier since new ownership took over at the hotel where my Tues night gigs are but for the most part they just don't wanna fork out the cash and/or the effort to bring more business in.  Unfortunately it's even the case when they don't have to pay for advertising.  The town I live offers a free, yes FREE, weekly entertainment guide in the local newspaper.  Go figure. :shock:
Author:  jamkaraoke [ Tue Sep 06, 2005 1:32 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Owners that can't, won't, don't promote or advertise.
I've worked at some places that were just mis-managed. Advertisement and promotion is just basic business sense.  And as we know - most banners are free from liquor distributors.  It is in everyones best interest if entertainment along with any bar specials are advertised and promoted.   As KJ's we have to sell this common sense sometimes to lazy management.  I've found most times if I'm dealing directly with the OWNER they will go along with most FREE ADVERTISEMENT in the form of outside banners etc.   What we have to push to most Owners/Management is that ENTERTAINMENT alone isn't a reason to PACK THE HOUSE WEEK IN AND WEEK OUT.  Curtious bar staff - Clean and safe establishments - Good Food and decent liquor prices all assist in keeping a place BUSY.  You can be the best KJ with a $50,000 sound system and if the bar staff is rude to your singers and the rest Of the place DIRTY.  Your singers will go some place else.

And Matt....   I AGREE  :wink:
Author:  Lonman [ Tue Sep 06, 2005 1:50 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Owners that can't, won't, don't promote or advertise.
Catseyeview @ Tue Sep 06, 2005 1:24 pm wrote:
 Unfortunately it's even the case when they don't have to pay for advertising.  The town I live offers a free, yes FREE, weekly entertainment guide in the local newspaper.  Go figure. :shock:


Can't you put  an ad in the free listing?  
I will do any free (cheap) advertising I can either in print, the web or otherwise & leave it up to the bar to do newspaper ads - again unless I can finagle for a free ad which I have several times in the past.  If they do decide to advertise, great, if they don't, then chances are I won't be staying too long because word of mouth only goes so far, but they have to get the word out in the first place so people can talk!
Author:  Catseyeview [ Tue Sep 06, 2005 2:07 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Owners that can't, won't, don't promote or advertise.
Oh yeah lol, I have done so many many times.  Even had banners made up from distributors (which is another freebie).  Just nice for owners take the initiative or even follow thru with things they say they're gonna do but never get around to lol
Author:  lyquiddye [ Thu Sep 08, 2005 10:35 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Owners that can't, won't, don't promote or advertise.
knightshow @ Tue Sep 06, 2005 4:19 pm wrote:
sometimes you have no choice, dye! It's NOT a question of bottom feeding but of intense competition, and the bars have gotten LAZY...

you can be offensive at times!


Actually I should post in the morning, when I'm calm like now. In the late hours I tend to get grouchy.

Sorry
Author:  knightshow [ Thu Sep 08, 2005 10:43 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Owners that can't, won't, don't promote or advertise.
no worries... just didn't know where you were coming from.

What I charge for my hosting compares with what "bottom-feeders" charge, and I get very sensitive over that... and it's not by choice. That's the market here! Fricken SUCKS!
Author:  Lonman [ Thu Sep 08, 2005 11:14 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Owners that can't, won't, don't promote or advertise.
knightshow @ Thu Sep 08, 2005 10:43 am wrote:
What I charge for my hosting compares with what "bottom-feeders" charge, and I get very sensitive over that... and it's not by choice. That's the market here! Fricken SUCKS!


Here too.  Got 1 system that I got undercut last month on to either meet it or beat it & another system sitting idle because no club will pay even my bottom scale fee so I don't bother with it.
Am going to renting the discs to a club for a while that are getting their own system, it's all good, their new host used to work for me & treats anything in her possession with kid gloves.  Besides i'll have a contract with a damage clause  :D
Author:  SwingcatKurt [ Mon Sep 12, 2005 6:20 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Owners that can't, won't, don't promote or advertise.
The more I talk to people the more I reach the conclusion that the real money is in private parties and weddings. Market conditions, competition, undercutting, etc, whatever is going to keep fees low in the bars in a majority of the cases--as Lon has run into with his meet it or beat it situation
Author:  Lonman [ Mon Sep 12, 2005 6:31 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Owners that can't, won't, don't promote or advertise.
SwingcatKurt @ Mon Sep 12, 2005 6:20 pm wrote:
The more I talk to people the more I reach the conclusion that the real money is in private parties and weddings. Market conditions, competition, undercutting, etc, whatever is going to keep fees low in the bars in a majority of the cases--as Lon has run into with his meet it or beat it situation


The real money has ALWAYS been private parties, however, the low ballers & multi riggers are scrtewing themselves along with EVERYONE in the industry.  Prices should have gone up over the years, no because of these people, they've went down.  ALmost to the point where i'm about to hang it up altogether, it's only going to get worse.  If the clubs want the crap entertainment, then they can pay (TIC) for it!
Author:  SwingcatKurt [ Mon Sep 12, 2005 6:51 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Owners that can't, won't, don't promote or advertise.
The more I talk to bands it appears its the same way with them too--so its seems its not limited to karaoke---down here theyve started doing PAY FOR PLAY---bands have to go out and "PRESELL" tickets, then pay the venue/promoter then whatvers left over teh band gets, plus the venue gets the gate. I can jsut see Karaoke going that way too. Pretty ugly situation.
PAY TO KARAOKE!
Author:  karaokemeister [ Wed Sep 14, 2005 8:07 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Owners that can't, won't, don't promote or advertise.
One venue I worked charged a $1 cover and I was paid a minimum vs. the door.  Some nights I did excellent, some nights I took home the minimum (usually because somethign else was going on the same night).

Charge for karaoke, perhaps.  My local KJ here in Seward will bump you to 'next' for $10.  $7 will bring you up to within the top 5.  Pisses me off every time.
Author:  BigRockJamie [ Thu Sep 15, 2005 7:42 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Owners that can't, won't, don't promote or advertise.
I'm not a KJ but in a cover band and I have tried to deal with this one club owner and he always wants to under cut us by a huge amount AND wants US to pay for the right for him to advertise our band on the marquee for the nights he would hire us to play there. Sorry Pal, hire us when you get your head on straight!!!!  Every other club will pay us admirably and advertise us on the marquee to draw in the people to get that money back....what a Bozo.
Author:  BigRockJamie [ Thu Sep 15, 2005 7:46 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Owners that can't, won't, don't promote or advertise.
I'm not a KJ but in a cover band and I have tried to deal with this one club owner and he always wants to under cut us by a huge amount AND wants US to pay for the right for him to advertise our band on the marquee for the nights he would hire us to play there. Sorry Pal, hire us when you get your head on straight!!!!  Every other club will pay us admirably and advertise us on the marquee to draw in the people to get that money back....what a Bozo.
Author:  Lonman [ Fri Sep 16, 2005 12:36 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Owners that can't, won't, don't promote or advertise.
BigRockJamie @ Thu Sep 15, 2005 7:42 pm wrote:
I'm not a KJ but in a cover band and I have tried to deal with this one club owner and he always wants to under cut us by a huge amount AND wants US to pay for the right for him to advertise our band on the marquee for the nights he would hire us to play there. Sorry Pal, hire us when you get your head on straight!!!!  Every other club will pay us admirably and advertise us on the marquee to draw in the people to get that money back....what a Bozo.


Depends on the cover band.  If you are known to draw a crowd, then they have no right trying to cut your pay, but if you are the draw of the night, then damn straight they better pay you.  I've been in several bands & the ones that drew the crowd, we were paid well.  But on the flipside, the bands that didn't draw a craowd were paid minimal.
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