Karaoke Forums

How do you handle the people that just seem to think they are doing you a favor by following you to each establishment and drink nothing but water. Not only that, they want it for free. I don't know a polite way to tell them that really, KARAOKE IS NOT FREE. Any help will be appreciated.

loitering

Pronunciation: 'loi-t&r
Function: intransitive verb
Etymology: Middle English
Date: 14th century

2 a : to remain in an area for no obvious reason

Synonyms: PARASITE, barnacle, bloodsucker, freeloader, leech, lounge lizard, ||spiv, sponge, sponger, sucker

I think this is a question for bar owners. It's more their problem. Some places tolerate it, some don't.

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Sounds Great! Entertainment
Bartlett, Illinois

Why would you bring anyone up to sing if they don't have a drink in front of them?? This is our livlihood not some "Game" we play to work for nothing or as I tell "All" my singers...."NO DRINKIE...NO SINGIE!!!""

HAVE IT IN YOUR BOOKS, ON THE TABLES WHERE THEY SIT, ANNOUNCE IT EVERY 15MINUTES.
(Even if it means buying a bottled water..)
Otherwise ignore them until they get the message...Hope this helps!!

I lot of clubs have a two drink/10 dollar minimum. Seems to work.

And you are right, it's the clubs problem.

If the owner has a policy, whatever that is, great and I'll implement it for them. Otherwise, I'm not going to make one up for them. I know of some water-drinkers that are more than tolerated by some bars.

If a singer (and paying customer) complains to me about the person that doesn't buy anything getting to sing, I pass that along to the owner/manager, but until told otherwise, oh well...patience

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Sounds Great! Entertainment
Bartlett, Illinois

I don't think loitering would be a term i'd describe a water sipper. They have an obvious reason for being there - karaoke!
If the bar allows it, there isn't anything you are going to be able to do. If you start skipping customers - the bars customers whether they pay for drinks or not, they may have friends with them that do - you'll start losing customers.
It's our job to bring bodies in & keep them entertained, it's the bars job to enforce who drinks what & who pays for what. You start skipping people in the rotation just because they are choosing to drink water, you not only jeopardize your reputation for fairness, possibly your job & maybe some future good customers.
You could put a page in your book that stands out explaining the costs involved in karaoke & that if the bar doesn't make their money, they won't continue the service for you - the singer!

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LIKE Lonman on Facebook - Lonman Productions Karaoke & my main site via my profile!

As long as you have a selection of non alcoholic drinks, I don't see the problem. But by the same token, singers who buy drinks expect the sound mix to be fixed right. If it isn't, then your show suffers the same it would with the water freeloaders. It works both ways, my friend.

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So you can sing. But can you write a song? That is the difference between karaoke...and the big time!

I remind people about drink specials, food specials, to tip the bartender and treat the waitress correctly. I also use onscreen advertising for the bar to help promote business.

Now, that being said, that's the end of my job when it comes to the bar's interest in the patrons. Now, my job FOR the patrons is to provide the very best show I possibly can, and to continually upgrade both current and future selections, my equipment, etc.

I don't have time to worry about water drinkers. The bar has their own rights to eject people for being abusers to the system... so do we!

...Here's what I do when I first start my shows as well as when the bartender approaches me about it.(At some of my locations part of my pay comes from a percentage as well as a base)..

"..Welcome everyone tonight, On behalf on myself and the establishment, we are having Karaoke tonight as well as,(if there are pool tables, dart machines or whatever),
Karaoke is Free, but only because this establishment has paid my fees to provide you with top notch entertainment as well as an avenue to vent off pent off frustrations, so please help make this a free event, buy something, tip the staff, cause they work below minmum wage and by all means show respect to all the patrons tonight..".
You get the feel of what I'm saying...?

My main concern is to first, make everyone of the singers, good or bad, feel and sound great, second is to make sure that I also think about those who don't sing, cause let's face it, they really do spend a lot of money there too.
Lastly, I do not play favortisms, singers are not stupid, they know when it's their turn, they know if they are being skipped or being pushed back.
I always say, be honest with your guests, tell them honestly what the rotation is like, don't jumped somebody up just because they complained or asked when they are coming up, circuit singers take advantage of that all the time.
I write the time each time the person brings up their slips, on the slip itself, this does several things:
1- It tells everyone, especially the singer, what time they brought their slip into the rotation
2- It tells me pretty much how long the actual rotation was or is going to be.
3- It eliminates those singers who say they have been waiting for over an hour to sing, when in fact they were only waiting twenty mintutes, time speeds up miracously when a point wants to be made...
4- I can keep track of new singers verses old

Hope this has helped you some what, also bear in mind that each establishment has to understand, a water drinker may actually have quite a few friends that come with them who drink and spend money just like those who don't know how to tip the service personnel, they still have friends who do......

Respectfully
Rodney

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Karaoke is supposed to be fun, if it isn't, then it's NOT KARAOKE.......

Just playing "devil's advocate" here, but what's to say these people that are drinking water, aren't picking up the tab for their table or buying every fourth round or every sixth round (depending on how many people are at the table) I WOULD HATE ANY KJ TELLING ME IF I'M NOT DRINKING, I'M NOT SINGING! And as far as skipping people that don't have a drink in front of them, that just make you look incompetent, unless you actually announce this policy. Any treating these "water drinkers" different from any other singer is wrong IMO.
Here's my point: I was boarderline alcoholic a few years ago (in my younger days), and received a DWAI while driving home one night. I also love to go out and sing, If I'm the one driving, I am not going to have a drink...you're telling me I'm not allowed to sing? Of course I do usually buy drinks for others and tip the bar/waitstaff very well, but that's because I've been on both sides of the fence. I leave any policies up to the establishment. Never been that much of a problem here.

Here's another question, how many KJs actually tip your bartender/waitstaff at the end of the night?

Flip (a.k.a. Mike)

I tip my waitress and bartender if they are attending me... serving me the rare beer or two, or just sodas!

But, you know, they never tip me, when I'm bringing in the business for them to make a lot more money than on nights with NO entertainment...

The place I started out in did, though. Tracy would make over $100 a night on karaoke nights, and she loved it. On other nights without karaoke, she was lucky to take in $20!!

SOoo, I would get a tip every now and then. I told her once when she flashed me across the bar that I already got my gratuity, thank you very much! !

Matt

I've got two weekly gigs. At one I get "just" a percentage of the till. The other one I get a low base and a lower percent of the money. No food or cover is involved nor charged. In my books I've got several "suggestions" on how they can support their free night of entertainment - ie BUY something. I've got a few great regulars who drink water - either alcohol or money problems. They sing, entertain and usually bring several drinking friends in with them. No problem. However there are others who just drink water that DON'T add to the evening for anyone. If the rotation is short - they're in regular. If it gets crunch time, they might get skipped over and I have no problem enlightening them for the reason if they complain - but they rarely do. They know where I'm coming from and where they ain't.

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Burlington, VT USA

Water drinkers are no more a KJ's problem than they are for a stand-up comedian, or for a band. I will treat them no differantly than I would treat anyone else unless directed to do so by the bar owner. That doesn't mean that I'm above asking for that direction. That water drinker just might be the owners dad.

Good point.

We are not the water police here but owners tend to blame a slow night on the host, duh....
It reall isn't as big as a problem as they make it, example:
One bar manager after a fairly decent night, while we were sitting down, mentioned that it was a decent night but there were a lot of coke and water drinkers, I then asked him does that bother you, he said yes, this is a bar and we expect people to drink, I said drink or to spend money, he said yes spend money, I asked him, what is your price for cokes, he said 3.00, and do you charge for refills, he said of course, then I asked him, how much for a beer,(it was tuesday drink special night), he said 2.50 for a domestic and 4.00 for an import, so I then asked him, do you see the difference between the beer money and the coke money?
He paused for a moment then replied, yeah but they only bought a couple of cokes, I then asked him what the difference between the actual cost of the beer was as compared to the cost he charged at the till, then tell me what the cost of the coke was as compared to the actual cost at the till, he looked so dazed at the moment and said, "oh my God you are right, it cost about .06 for a glass of coke where the beer costs about 1.69..".

So do the math, costs may vary but it's pretty much the same all the way around.......

BTW I have firends in the alcohol distribution industry, I know the average costs are, plus a lot of these liquor vendors offer the sodas at a really cheap price in order to secure the liquor sales......

Not trying to totally get one sided here but allowing for points to be brought up if an owner tries to beat you over the head with this...
Respectfully
Rodney

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Karaoke is supposed to be fun, if it isn't, then it's NOT KARAOKE.......

I am in buisness to make money as are the venues I play. You buy nothing you earn and pay for the right to LISTEN. My reputation is for fairness to PATRONS of the venues. YOU DON'T BUY , YOU AREN'T A PATRON. These types do not need to take up the time of my customers with a long wait to sing. KARAOKE is NOT a free service. Most of my venues sell bottled water, soda, coffee, food besides ALCOHOL so for those who don't and can't drink there are purchases that can be made. TIPPING the waitress doesn't pay for the service, but yes do tip too.

Water dinkers are our business if you want to keep a gig. You have to be able to read those trays to see that money is being made. Look into those trash cans too, if they are full or being changed out often full keep up with what you SHOULD be earning. Keeping an eye on business is your biz if you are interested in making money at this. The staff tells me if someone won't make any purchases. I know many of the chronic abusers.

KEEP THIS IN MIND KJ's:

#1 There are some people who just don't drink nothing BUT water when they go out... RESPECT THEM! They could be your NEXT DECENT GIG!

#2 TIPS ARE NOT COMMANDED OR DEMANDED THEY ARE EARNED! If I see another show in Nashville with a money hungry KJ it won't be too soon... Believe me the word's already out in 8 of them...They are now going broke. It turns singers off.

#3 NEVER NEVER Argue with a singer! ~~~ That's self explained.

#4 No matter how much a singer irritates you TRY to kill them with kindness... Anger never solved a single issue in a show.

#5 And FINALLY if any problems arise with a customer. Make the house security take care of it... You are being a meger wage to entertain. so entertain.

Sing Safe!
Brian

This is a great discussion because it is about our livlihood and our jobs as well. We all work to build a following for our shows no matter how many we may have.

Ours is not a business of profit most times, but whether it be a beer or water (bottled) or soda drinker, most of our clients and singers and their friends do not just go out to "Sit" in a bar setting. They are out to get a little buzzed and sing a few we hope. The ones that dont buy or spend or tip or even care except to sing every other song are the ones we weed out. It is not the majority "IN" the bar that do not "PAY" but the few who may not have enough to buy a bottled water or coke. I used to buy certain people at my shows drinks that I knew were maybe down on their luck or not working at the time until one night, while I was working a very busy night, one of them just came up to my tip jar and "TOOK" all my tips from my jar, it was around 10pm and I had around $30 in the jar at that point. He went up to the bar, ordered food and a pitcher of beer, I walked up behind him and said, "after you enjoy the meal and booze I just bought you, don't ever come back here again." I would always make sure he had a soda or beer when he came in, but I never trusted him ever again.

We all know who our "Lightweights" are when they come into the show, and sometimes it may seem a little unfair for those who do come to the shows and spend $$$ with their friends every week, we are not bartenders or referees, just trying to do the best we can with what we have, and that is our drive, our talent, and our longevity in this business called Karaoke...

It is up to the venue as to what their policy is, whether to give awat water or sell bottled water. It is their place not yours. There may be varioous reasons why people drink water. They could be alcoholics, diabetics, other medical problems, or they may be the designated driver so the other drunks can get home safely. Now if you want to discuss it with management fine, but I would NEVER tell someone they couldn't sing other than for obvious drunkeness or rudeness.