Karaoke Forums

Hi,

I saw on ebay a pair of vocopro sv-500 for $270 including the shipping.  Are these speakers are good enough for home karaoke use.  In its spec, its frequency response is 20Hz-20KHz (didn't mention +/- ?db).  It looks like a full range speaker.  So, Do I still need a Subwoofer for it (If yes, would my home audio subwoofer will do it or should I have to purchase a karaoke subwoofer?).  I am thinking about buying a vocopro mixer amplifier DA-8808VE to go with these.

Any advice will be much appreciated?

thanks!

The advice would be to research VOCOPRO brand a little - You'll find most who tried there products to find the quality lacking and the price HIGH- FYI - look at a pair of Peavey PR10 lite wieght speakers - Brand Name is highly regarded and the price for these speakers are listed at $139.95 each - I'm sure  you can do better and have them delivered.  Even for HOME use your better off looking at some of the less expensive pro-audio lines of equipment.  Try looking at some of the "pro-audio" websites --just google "pro-audio" and you'll do much better in the long run than buying vocopro.

Thanks JAMKARAOKE,

Will I still need a subwoofer for Peavey PR10 or a pair of these just do fine?

Do you NEED a subwoofer?  It's up to you.  What will your ears hear?  Do you want it to sound like a small stereo sytem or do you want to have a closer to "concert" sound?  Large or small room>?  I would personally run a sub on ANY system I have simply because I like the added bass (these frequencies can be controlled as to not overpower also) & to get some of the lower frequencies out of my main speakers to help relieve them of some of the added stress that bass frequencies can give, but is a sub needed - that's all entirely up to you & your needs.  Can't tell you either way.

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Forget Vocopro

When shopping speakers, you need to examine the specs....Vocopro's 20-20K Hz is very misleading....What they leave out is the SPL's at 20 Hz.....You will find that the speaker puts out very little sound at that low bass freq.

All speakers are rated at SPL VS power input and at a distance from cone...Typically it is stated as "xx Db @ 1 watt/meter @ 1K Hz"....So a speaker that give 100 Db @ 1 watt/meter is a lot more efficient than one that is rated at 91Db @ 1 watt/meter...Cause every 3 Db is a doubling of loudness, so the second speaker will produce lots less volume than the first at the same power levels.

That said, then look at the other specs...The speaker maker will state Freq range of xx-xx Hz @ 1 watt/meter, and he should add that the lower freq will produce at a certain Db....You will see it stated by an honest maker as "47-18K Hz, 40 Hz @ -36 Db"....What that says is the speaker will produce 40 Hz at a much, much lower volume level compared to the higher freqs when the same power is applied to all freqs.

Forget vocopro, they lie by omiting the truth.

Thanks all,

As always, you guys are very helpful.  I will look on other brands Mackie, Peavey & JBL.  

I do like bass.  So, blending a subwoofer into my system is definitely a way to go.  Any recommend on a Sub.  It will go either with mackie SRM 450 or JBL EON 15 G2 along with Mackie DFX-12.

Thanks!

If you go the JBL EON, they make a matching powered sub as well that will compliment nicely.  If you go Mackie, they also make a matching sub that will go nicely - the 15" would be all you need for home & just start with 1.

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It really does depend on what you are planning on setting up. You could run a karaoke player through any $150-200 home entertainment system with two small speakers and a sub and it would sound fine for a small to medium room with 6-10 peeps around. You will also have more of a "stereo" sounding system than a live rig.

HOWEVER, if you want that live concert sound, go the PA route.  A big advatage to this format is that you will always be able to upgrade it in the future if you want to do more.


If you are getting PA speakers, I agree that the Peavy ProLites sound great on the high end and mid-range, though they lack a bit in bass responce just because the cabs are made of plastic and not wood. The advantage they have, however, is that they weigh about 30 pounds less than comparable wooden cabs!!

For good, inexpensive PA speakers for home use, I would recommend some Yamaha BR12s. This is what I started off with in my pro rig for about $220 each (Sam Ash, guitar center, zzounds, etc. often put this speaker on sale for $199.99 also...it frequents the teaser list because they are popular!!), and they deliver a great full-ranged sound. Think of it as adding a small subwoofer to the Peavey's for $40 a speaker, as there is a BIG differance in the base responce!!

The Peavey 115s are also very good (wooden cabs) at $200 each.

Just my 2c!!

These speakers will only work if you have the power to run them.  You COULD use your reciever with the secondary output (most have this), however most home recievers are really not rated for live use - sure they will work, but definately won't sound the same as a "pro" quality system.  It sounds as if he wants to go the powered speaker route with the Mackie DFX6 mixer - which would be perfect.

BTW with the JBL EON G2 or the Mackie SRM450 - you may not need the sub, both these speakers push some nice bass without subs - ESPECIALLY in a home system.

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Trust Lonman.  When I play the SRM450s at home, I would not consider adding a sub.  If a play some dance music it puts out enough bass to annoy anyone that does not share a liking for that style of music.  Also if you keep speakers closer to the floor you get more base.  I like to use one on the floor infront of the mic to double as a monitor and the other on the stand.  I have always enjoyed the sound of my Mackies.

Cheers

Thanks guys,

If I get a pair of mackie 450s (though I like the solid look on JBL EON 15 G2), should I place them in front or in the back of the room (my sofa is against the wall)?

Should I rather purchase them through ebay or online retail store?

Place them across the room facing the sofa....That way you don't need monitors, but always sing facing the speakers or you will get feedback thru the mic.

If your home system is used for party stuff, then reconsider the speaker placement so the singers can face the seating area and not have a speaker directed at the business end of the mic.

If you are using a sub in a rather small living room, then always engage the low cut on your mixer strip if it has one. You want to avoid harmful subsonic feedback that can damage the sub. Subsonic feedback will do one of two things...it will eat up amp power and cause clipping or it will cause a droning/muddy bass sound or both.

You can get destructive subsonic feedback even without subs...In that case it feeds thru the mains and causes the horns to clip.....Always use low cuts on mics, especially in small rooms.

As far as speaker selection goes, room size always determines speaker selection....And then proper speaker placement must be consodered.

If a pair of 2-way cabs that contain 10's and a tweeter will fill the room to a high and clear SPL, then cabs with 15's and a horn are not better....Cabs need to operate with proper amp power and cabs need to operate at power levels where they sound best....So if you buy a pair of 2-way 15's for a small room and then operate them at too low a level, the sound will suffer.....Operate them at the level they are voiced for and your ears or the neighbor might suffer.

You can get great vocals from a pair of quality home stereo speakers if you use a compressor on the mics....Remember that all FM radio and music CD's are highly compressed and your home stereo speakers are voiced for that, so use a compressor on your mics if you use home stereo cabs.

Pro PA cabs are designed to handle live uncompressed vocals but they give up some definition in the process because they are built stiffer and more durable.

If you really want a great home karaoke system for a room no larger than 15 X 20, then consider a decent pair of larger monitors like used for a recording studio....But make sure to use a compressor especially at high SPL's.

Hi Keith,

Can you explain more detail about "low cut on mixer and mics".  I don't understand this term.  Do you by any chance mean to set my crossover frequency low?




Keith, I like this paragraph a lot.  It all makes sense to me.



My basement is about 14 x 28 and it opens to my larger living room upstair.

Low cut - some mixers have a special button on the channels that allow you to cut out all frequencies under a certain point - most useful on mic channels.  Usually anywhere between 75-100 hz - the low bass range.  If your mixer doesn't have this switch (yours - the DFX6 - does have a low cut), you can achieve the same thing by turning down the bass (low) on your mic channel.



Not always the case.  Powered speakers are already matched for the amp inside & the better ones like the Mackies & JBL's will sound good at most volume levels.



Studio monitors are not designed for PA use at anything over "nearfield" volume levels - meaning they can't really push any kind of power - nor will they be able to reproduce the bass frequencies that you already stated you wanted, at any kind of volume.  Studio monitors are designed to reproduce "accurate" sound for recording - not to be a playback system for PA's.

A compressor on the vocals is a good recomendation - however not needed as much (in a home system) with a good set of speakers designed for live vocals, this is something that can be added later.

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A pair of 2-way 10's or 12's with horns or tweeters rated at max 200 watts continous / 400 watts program with one 15" sub would be just fine for bare bones walls floors....If the walls are partly draped with thick carpet on the floor, then 10's would be too small with tweeters, you would want 12's with horns....Either way, you want at least one 15" sub with 400 watts of sub amp.....If you plan to party and play hot dance music, then go with two 15" subs or one 18" and more sub amp.

Place the tops where the horns/tweeters are above the heads of the dancers at the long end of the room 10' apart with the subs together on the floor centered tween the tops and against a back wall. Horns throw straight out and downward, so they will reach the back of the room if placed high enuff.

Enjoy!

Thanks everyone  for helping me.

Linhsy.

Lonman,

What I was saying was speakers can be either too large or too small for a room. 2-way 15's with horns either passive or powered are too large for small rooms. You can't crank them to the point they are designed to operate....Once again, always let room size determine speaker selection....Then select amp to properly power speakers.

Also, I explained that large studio monitors or home speakers must always use a compressor on the vocals or they will experience live PA events they can't handle. Both type speakers are great at reproducing the music contained in karaoke CD+G's but would suffer on uncompressed vocals....

PA speakers don't sound as good reproducing the music in CD+G's because they are designed for stage use where they have to be stiffer and are less responsive to highly compressed prerecorded music. We must use PA speakers for karaoke at commercial venues cause we have to fill the audience area at high SPL's.  Home karaoke can sound better using home style speakers as long as they are properly sized, properly powered, and protected with low cuts and vocal compression.

Large speakers CAN be eq'd to sound great in a small room.  I've ran 2 SP-4's (dual 15" & horn) bi-amped in a room that PROBABLY should have used a smaller speaker.  The sound was nothing less than stellar - after eq adjustments.  
I do agree with a speaker that can be too small for a room.

Home speakers are very sensitive - especially in the tweeter, even with compressed vocals, these drivers are not voiced for live vocals & can be fried very easily.

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Sorry Lonman, but I disagree.

First remember that I have very large PA speakers for my home dj/kj rig....I even have a dance pole and all the pro lighting installed...My gameroom/party room is 30 X 30 and the 2-way 15's and dual 18" subs are too big for it....but every now n then we roll it all outside where it can really crank and the cabs start to sound good out to 100 feet...In the house tho, they don't do so well cause I have to limit them so much to compensate for the small room size.

No EQ in the world can make an oversized cab sound right in a small room. I have one of the best EQ's on the market and it can't make a stiff 15" PA speaker with a wanna-squawk horn respond like a 10" light weight home woofer/tweeter when in a home sized room....All it can do at most is attenuate the most grating freqs and prevent comb filtering and feedback, but that's only when I cut lots of freqs......Who needs to cut freqs when the freqs supply the music?

Lonman...Pretend you are with a hot date....Then remember that there are times when you need to whisper in her ear, and there are times you need to sing loudly to her....And remember that each of those times needs different SPL's but they always need the sincerity of clarity.....Remember that, and you will have lots of memories fersure.

So when do you plan to come visit and make a few memories?

Hi,

Thanks all suggestions.  Last night, I finally got a pair of Mackie SRM-450s, DFX-6 mixer, Shure Beta 58A Mic.  Wow! the 450s are so huge that I can/might not place them on my HT Shelf.  So, I place them on the ground right now.  Last night, I had a chance to hook it up and playing some karaoke at a low level (since it was kind of late).  I have some questions to address:

1) while playing karaoke dvd disc, if I use the vocal eliminator on the dfx-6 mixer, I can still hear the vocal.  It seems to eliminate only 75% of vocal.  Then, If I use vocal eliminator on the Karaorke DVD player (Apex AD-600A), the vocal is 100% eliminated.  I don't know if it was my disc or the mixer.

2) Last night, I set my speakers' gain level knob about 1/4. and the Main Mix fader to around -20db.  I set the mic 1's gain knob to over the "U" a little bit and its chanel fader to "U".  The questions are

           2.a) if I want to set the desired volume level, should I increase the gain on the speakers or on the Mixer's Main mix.?
           2.b) how to make the sound of the mic & music (from DVD) blending well together?  I'm don't know much about mixing music.  Need some advices.

BTW, my speakers are made in China.  I heard about the thermal problem but these will only be used for home karaoke.  I probably not ever go so loud.  I think I will be ok.

Thanks all.

Linhsy