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I've been posting how I've turned around this dead Friday night show at a local club.  Now we have a really good bartender with a following and things have just exploded.

This Friday I had 37 singers.  It's the most I've ever had, rotation was well over 1 hour and 45 minutes and I had a couple of outright angry singers.  I explained to them calmly, that there were 20 ahead, 28 ahead, 15 ahead, and a couple just didn't like the answer.  I did blending, respect my early arrivals, and the computerized rotation was communicating how many we had.  Insult to injury I got admonished by the bar manager after my show for saying it was a long rotation.

It was thrilling to have so many singers, and most of them very understanding, but it was frustrating - I had seven people "give up" before their time to sing came up.  So I guess the question comes down to this:

1)  Dude - hey - poop happens - 37 singers - you should be so lucky, some folks just aren't going to wait.

2)  Thirty-seven, that's nothing, I have 37 singers for breakfast, this is what I do that your missing out on.

I know this has been discussed before -- and from a "singers" stand point I've always felt that 10 to 15 is a magic number.  As a KJ I've always felt that 20 to 25 is a magic number.  From a singer stand point places that have 30 plus singers, well I've given up and left if I was there to sing.

Anyway, any ideas appreciated - because I figure the curve is going to keep going and this will likely be the norm as I continue to bring in part of my equipment to supplement theirs, and Shannon remains our bartender on Friday nights!

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Despite the internet rumor, Karaoke is not Japanese for "drunk buffoon with microphone."  However, "rotation," is Japanese for wait your damn turn!

Go with number one.  We've had 45 singers in a rotation and we WILL NOT cut off a rotation, that would be unfair to all.  We tell them we do 5 other shows during the week and come to one of those too.  That amount of people usaually have a lot of fun and people, as long as they're having fun, won't care.

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You can be strange but not a stranger

Never mind the rotation, it will take care of itself!  You should strike while the iron is hot and negotiate a long term deal with this place for more money than you're getting now citing the recent success of the show.  Suggesting a second show during the week wouldn't be a bad idea either to give those singers frustrated with long Friday rotations a chance to sing when it's less crowded.  

I had a regular Friday gig that did just what you described.  I talked them into a Thursday show.  It was a little slow at first, but THAT show grew and grew to the point that I have just signed on with them for Wednesdays as well!

Look after your bottom line my friend!

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Spreading the karaoke gospel

Thanks.  I never considered cutting off the rotation as an option.  But if the answer is poop happens well then poop happens.  Shannon and I (the bartender) we talk shop all the time and try to figure out to improve upon things.  The issue here is keeping the crowd happy while they are waiting.  I have ideas on doing that - but it's going to be a hard sell to management.

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Despite the internet rumor, Karaoke is not Japanese for "drunk buffoon with microphone."  However, "rotation," is Japanese for wait your damn turn!

How to handle the long rotations depends on how you crowd comes in.  All at once, or do they come in slowly over a period of an hour or so.

I had a large group come in all at once (figure 100-200 people coming in within 20 minutes about 30 minutes into the night).  A first come first serve rotation would become unmanageable when you hit 30-40 deep.  I cut the current rotation at 25 deep and started mixing it up.  The people that were there since I opened got to sing after a little over an hour, the people just showing up seeing that the place was already packed knew to expect a wait.  Fair?  I think so.  It was an 8 hour show and everyone got to sing plenty.  After the first rotation a number of people dropped out and I maintained a 20-30 person rotation for most of the remainder of the night.

If they trickle in a first come first served works well.  As the place gets busier the wait is longer.  Even if you mix them into the next rotation.  Basically, if I show up someplace where it's packed I expect to wait to sing.  I have to decide if I want to wait the time for the long rotation or go somewhere else.  Period.

But when you have a large group showing up all at once and you have 40 slips dropped onto your table in a span of 5 minutes or so it's hard to tell someone that all those people just walked into the door and your wait just jumped to over 2 hours.  BTW, that night I had no complaints other than a single person complaining about my 'skipping' them completely.  I had called them 6 times over the course of the night but they didn't 'hear' me.  Guess drinking large amounts of al-key-haul makes you deaf.  I let him sing at the end of the night when he complained and even he went away happy.

Hope this all makes sense.  It's a fine balance between showing favoritism and maintaining a fair rotation.  Every person has their own way of handling it, but with extremely long rotations it can get tricky to maintain a balance between fairness and unusually long wait times.

I agree with Mike. 1st, raise your price. Second, my suggestion is for you handle the huge rotation as you would a normal one. Once, I did a gig with 75 different singers. That was excatly one round in 5½hrs. Everyone was happy (enough).

If someone doesn't understand why it takes long to get to sing again, just tell them this is how it goes when the rotation is huge and there's nothing that can be done about it. Everyone has to be given the chance to sing but you can cut off people that are badly drunk. Within time, people will get used to the new system and come to that particular place for only one song. As a good side effect the quality of performances will raise up to its maximum.

Cheers,
jee

The reality of a very succesful show where you have HUGE rotations is that  regular Karaoke singers DO NOT LIKE TO WAIT over an hour or sing 2 songs all night long.
If your show is one in that you're counting on the same singers (regulars) coming back week after week a VERY huge rotation is not a draw.  But if you're show is in a place where the clientele is fluid and differant people come in every week to sing JUST to have fun a large karaoke rotation shouldn't be a problem and the variety of singers and music would be welcome by all.  Its a thin line between having a great show that Both KJ & Singer can appreciate.... Sometimes too GOOD for one is not good for another.  I've read here that some singers would rather go to a LESSER quality show if it meant that they could sing 2 or 3 MORE songs than at a BETTER show.......... Either way ..Keep your show fast paced, rotations FAIR and sound quality up and you should do okay......

Yep, I agree Jam.  I recently had a stretch of 3 Fridays in a row that were unreal, crowd-wise.  Everyone who had ever set foot in my show, decided to show up those nights.  Well, the fourth Friday, no one showed up; very slow show.  I blamed it on the fact that it was the day after St. Patty's day and everyone was partied out.  The following Friday, pretty slow show.  I blamed it on Easter weekend.  I showed up Saturday night (the day before Easter), and there were all my Friday regulars!

In talking to them, they all said the same thing: Friday's had gotten too crowded, and they didn't like sitting through the long rotation to only sing a couple of songs.  Fortunately, I explained to some of my favorites that everyone had that same idea so now Fridays were a more manageable.  Most of them were back this past Friday, and hopefully we're back to normal.

It will flip/flop.  You get the huge rotations because you are successful.  People like to come to that club for karaoke obviously which will grow the rotation.  On the downside, success can also be the downfall.  Once the rotation gets to a certain point (on average) week after week, many will start dropping out to lesser filled clubs (sad to say but true) because they will be able to sing more.  This will now make your rotation balance back out or it will fall below a certain point which will be the allure for others because now you have a lesser rotation & you'll start filling back up.  Just stay as fair & consistant as you can & you'll keep a good rotation base.

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We run our rotation same way if we only have 4 singers all the way to 30+ singers. We start building the rotation and when everyone who want to sing has done their first song then we start the 2nd rotation. The person who has been watching and waiting to sing decides to sing or the person who just walked through the door brings up a song they are both treated as new singers and are mixed into the rotation (i.e. old singer, new singer, old singer, new singer ect...) This allows the new singers to get up to sing fairly quickly. I have had nights were there were so many new singers come up at once that the singer who gave me their ticket last waited 45 min or more to sing but usually it is within 10 minutes.

If I see a singer leave and go across the street they are skipped but remain in the spot of rotation. If they come back and have been skipped by then they will just have to wait until there turn comes back around I will not bump them so they can bar hop between the two bars. If they are gone for more than 1 or 2 rotations I will pull they slips and put them away. And if they do come back then they can go to the back of the rotation.

As for the owner complaining about the length of wait. I bet they are not complaining that the bag they take to the bank is too heavy or fat.

main thing is to make sure you are announcing the rotation is long and the wait is even longer... this will let people know as a group instead of dealing with each person individiually... it also trains your customers tooknow that when the rotation is long that the wait is long too and that you will deal with it as fair as always.  having a fair rotation is key no matter how long the rotation is... - tig

I was doing this and this was what the owner was specifically complaining about.  He said I was scaring people off and should only do if people are complaining.  I explained to him that people were asking and complaining.  Glenn is a good guy, run bars a long time, but he is very set in his ways.

I'm going to tweak my rotation software a bit more this week to accomodate some needed changes.  I'll keep you updated - it's good feedback.

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Despite the internet rumor, Karaoke is not Japanese for "drunk buffoon with microphone."  However, "rotation," is Japanese for wait your damn turn!

The owner has a point there..In your attempt to be upfront and honest with the patrons if your telling them that the rotation is long and they'll have to wait an  hour or so  you will "chase" some people out.  Try to spin the information more POSITIVELY if thats possible.  Instead of an announement that there is a long rotation try something along the lines of WE'RE BUSY TONIGHT AND EVERYONE IS HAVING FUN -APPRECIATE EVERYONES PATIENCE ...ETC ETC. - There is really no way around having a very busy show and long rotations and having some people complain of the wait--they go hand in hand.  Ask the owner to sponser a late night Karaoke drawing for anyone who sang or submitted a song slip to sing. Maybe a $50 drawing and see if people hang around until the end......

That is a great idea - but Glenn would rather have oral surgery without the benefit of drugs than give up some bank with questionable ROI - I think that idea would work like a charm and keep 'em packed in.

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Despite the internet rumor, Karaoke is not Japanese for "drunk buffoon with microphone."  However, "rotation," is Japanese for wait your damn turn!

Just tell people to be patient.

And what does the owner want? Money... well, when the rotation gets THAT out of hand, it's going to go nutso. You will have your complainers that it's taking too long to get them back up, and the complainers that it's taking too long to get up for the first time.

I'm very honest with people. I'll tell them straight out. "Hey, it's a rotation of 37 people. You're number 35, we're on number 17, and the average song is around 4-5 mins each. Do the math yourself. I will NOT bump anybody up... others have been here even longer than you, and they're waiting... patiently, I might add."

and no, I won't kiss up to an owner that can't realize he's sitting on a powder keg. Once people see how busy it is, the ones that are the TRUE non-supporters will leave. and like lonnie points out, the balance will eventually happen!

This is from a singer’s standpoint:

When I started going to the local watering hole that plays Karaoke, the rotation was not too bad. They start at 9:30 Friday and Saturday night and go till 12:30, then it’s pay per song until no one else wants to do a song.

They charge $10.00 and don’t get too many after hours songs, if they charged 5.00 per, they would get a huge amount more.

BUT, I am getting off track.  I have only been going to that bar for about 6 months and they have grown so much in the 6 month that the rotation time is huge now, I am lucky if I get in one song on a Friday night, used to be I could get three songs in if I was lucky.

Does it piss me off; no … am I disappointed, yes.  But that’s the nature of the beast.
There is another bar down the street that if not even half as crowded and I usually end up going there once I have sung and said hi to friends and such. So although I would like to sing more, the reality is the bar has gotten way too popular, but in some ways that is a good thing and in others bad.

Also I try and gear my songs to more of a dance nature on Friday night, because most folks are there to party for the most part.

Anyone that gets pissed off because of the rotation times, need to grow up and face the facts of life.

So don’t worry about those the complain, just tell them your sorry but they will just have to wait.

I am facing the same thing at my bar,  people were used to coming in on fri or sat nite and the rotation was only about 12-15, the last few weeks we have jumped to 25-30. which the owner of the bar is very excited about, I run the karoke Tues.wed thurs fri and sat, from 9-3  So I have been telling the ones that have been complaining about the long wait ( which are my regulars) and used to being able to sing more songs , to try stopping by a weeknite.  This has helped our weekdays by far.  They are also still coming in on the weekends.  Everybody Wins

From a singer's standpoint:

I go to karaoke to sing, so extremely long rotations do tend to frustrate me a bit - which is why I usually try to avoid weekends or extremely busy locations. But I do understand that lots of singers = long wait, and that's all there is to it, which is why my frustration never gets aimed at the DJ unless: a) I see the same people singing multiple times before I'm called (not counting duets or group sings); b) if the DJ sings in the middle of an extremely long rotation (last weekend, I was in a rotation of over 2 hours, and the DJ not only sang twice that night, but he sang the same song both times); or c) if a TON of new people get put into a rotation all together, making my wait between songs jump from 15 minutes to two hours in a single rotation. This is usually what makes a night end on a bad note for me... when I've been happily singing every half hour or so, and then for the last two hours of the night I keep waiting and never get called up again.

Am I a difficult customer?

 

Well this is a new one I always made the club pay for overtime..... does anyone else use this or anything like this  for overtime compensation?

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"There is a Law of the Universe:   CHEAP...   FAST...   GOOD...   pick any two."

yes, you need to do something to keep the "children" entertained.  I refer to the singers as children, cause they do act like that sometimes.

Things I have seen used:
Balloon hat contests
any kind of contest that they can be somewhat entertained by, and can go on while somebody is singing. (baby bottle beer chug, super trivia, team building games  like building a self-standing structure with plastic straws and a roll of masking tape, stuff-it/balloon game)

Basically any game you do should meet these requirements:
- supplies are cheap
- non-dangerous (no body will get hurt, or hurt themselves)
- non-mess making (cause you will be the one cleaning it up)

The  best way to move that rotation along quickly
- Up, on deck, in the hole (BE READY!!)
- YOU (the host)Need to be ready - if this means having 2 seperate decks so the next song is on pause in the other deck, so be it
- Once, Twice, Gone (if they are going to complain about the wait, they should be expected to be ready when they are called_
- NO, NONE, NADA changing your song when you come up PERIOD!!, if you change your mind you sit out that song

When am I up next - keep asking and you won't be up anytime soon!!