Karaoke Forums

Has Anyone tried to generate additional income while working a gig? I know the tip cup is one idea but i opt not to push it for fear of rotation lashbacks. Was thinking of offering something to sell, Does anyone sell recordings of singers on CD or Tape?? Pros-Cons?  Bars/Clubs i work at Sell Alcohol, snacks, Food, Quick draw (NY type Loto) Loto, so their pulling in monies on other items. I was hoping to be able to offer something semi-cheep $1 - $2 for the singers or regular's. Every little bit helps and at the end of the night it could be enough for Gas or Breakfast.
Djpauly

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"There is a Law of the Universe:   CHEAP...   FAST...   GOOD...   pick any two."

Agree on the tip jar - too many associate that with a bribe IMO, often rightly so from what I've seen.  I don't sell anything, but I do book many private parties, weddings and other gigs as a result of regular karaoke work, so I view the bar time as much more valuable than what they simply pay me.  If you do come up with something, I suggest clearing it with the bar owner first, as they may assume your gain comes at their loss.  Good luck.

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Sounds Great! Entertainment
Bartlett, Illinois

Technically it's illegal - copyright infringement.  This isn't an ASCAP issue when you start recording, this is reproduction for distribution.

You can always get t-shirts made with your company logo, some clever saying pertaining to karaoke &/or your comapany - if they look good & stylish they'll sell.  We've sold the pens with lights - these were huge, but didn't really make anything from them.  Among other merchandising stuff that may or may not sell - just depends on your customers.

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LIKE Lonman on Facebook - Lonman Productions Karaoke & my main site via my profile!

I don't sell anything at my shows either, I like to think that I've contracted my shows for enoough money that I'm gettting paid well for what I do.  I used a tip jar when I first started, but all it collected was dust.  I'd rather have the patrons tip the bartenders and wait staff anyway, since they aren't the ones making 50-100 bucks an hour like I do.  

I have, however, had bumper stickers made and this was a great thing to help get my business off the ground.  I had my logo on it with the message "I sang with Big Mike Karaoke" and then had my web address at the bottom.  I gave one to every singer that held my microphone and told them they could go and see the pics of themselves singing.  Lots of people wanted them, and I would only give them to singers which made for a lot of new singers as well. The nice thing was that it directed people to my website, which has a complete schedule and other info pertaining to my business.  It was well worth the money I spent.

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Spreading the karaoke gospel

How about souvenir pictures?  Not sure if you have any tourist type business. - Get a custom printed papertype frame made with logo . name . slogan etc. and take a digital pic of someone, print and sell  with frame.
keep the cost where people would buy ....$5-$10.  ( cost would be probably half?)

I think some people would like a pic of them singing with friends etc.

I see where you all are coming from but when i go out and do a show at a local bar, they are never gonna give me what im worth. yes granted if and when i book a party i make a good sum of money but why should we limit the amount we pull in on a regular night of karaoke. there is extra money to be made, i see it as a untaped resource... im just trying to find out what to tap it with. when i have to buy a set of EAW speakers it takes a whole lot of gig's to break even. when i have to keep up buying new karaoke, new music, and now DVD music when do i break even? Its a bad excuse to say.... well get less expensive speaker or don't get the new music till it comes down on price. Because I have these things is why people come out to my shows. Im not looking to make a killing in merchindising or run a thrift store from behind the booth. Just alittle extra that could be used for all of the above.
Djpauly

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"There is a Law of the Universe:   CHEAP...   FAST...   GOOD...   pick any two."

Jam,
   Photos are a Cool idea I use them when i do Bar/Bat Mitzvah Receptions. I sometimes use the photo Keychains too. I dont get enough New Faces to be able to keep it fresh,., wish i had more tourist but not at the places i play.

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"There is a Law of the Universe:   CHEAP...   FAST...   GOOD...   pick any two."

We buy CDGs from distributors and resell them.  We can get discs pretty cheap and shipped to us and sell them for a modest profit.  Singers seem to like this as they can get their own discs.  Granted there are no high quality brands (too expensive for most, SC,THM,PHM) but they are happy.  We always tell them that the quality is not the best but good enough for home use.

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You can be strange but not a stranger

Photos are a nice touch.  With the digital age a good digital camera & an HP photo printer that accepts the memory sticks, you can print them on the spot in less than 2 minutes.

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LIKE Lonman on Facebook - Lonman Productions Karaoke & my main site via my profile!

The other idea I like ( forgetting for a moment its illegal) is being able to record the singer and burn a disc on the fly and sell them..... I think many people would like a cd of their performances....  

Actually, you can license for recording with Sound Choice.  They have a special licensing setup for using the tracks for karaoke booths where they record, etc.  The cost last time I checked was $150 per track, but it's available...  :roll:

I'd consider t-shirts, photos, bumper stickers, cdg's, etc.  Just about anything with a karaoke theme can be sold, but keep it cheap.  Remember if you start putting too much time into the other merchandise your show could suffer.  I recommend something small or if you work the show with a partner you could have them handle the pictures.

I like the bumper sticker idea though...

The cheep CDG's might be the way to go whats the company your going through for yours?

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"There is a Law of the Universe:   CHEAP...   FAST...   GOOD...   pick any two."

Go to the various distributors and see what's on sale.  We've gotten CDG grab bags, sets that were on sale (BS, AH, SGB, LG, SAVs, KH, etc).  Not expensive discs or the best quality, but for home use at a cheap price, they're ok, and we tell them that.  Further we check the discs on the off chance we need any.

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You can be strange but not a stranger

Recording singers and giving them a CD or tape of their performance sounds like a great idea but, aside from the HUGE licensing issues involved, recording is a completely different animal than live performance as one of my KJ co-horts recently found out.  I tried to convince him of this before he started promoting it, but he wouldn't listen.  I have COMPLETELY different gear used for recording and live sound because it's really necessary.  The output from live sound is typically wayyyyyyy too hot for digital recording and unless you want to add another mixer and additional gear it's just not worth it...not to mention the legal trouble you'd be asking for if you didn't license the material correctly....DD

Actually, there are lots of ways to handle recording.  Many mixers offer stereo outputs to send to tape and my new mixer even has firewire outputs that allow me to record each channel sepereately where I can add effects and tweak the mix later.

Recording isn't so much of a technical issue as is overcoming the legal limitations of recording.

FYI, I have recorded using both my computer and my minidisc player/recorders without any issues.    Just set the recording level and let it go.  My current mixer (a Soundcraft Compact 10 mixer) is even designed to be used to record a final stereo mix but keep in mind it's not designed for live music.

If it is legal to make a 1 for one copy of karaoke disk's....... wouldnt it follow that if you made a recording of a singer using a karaoke disk, if you gave them the original karaoke disk for the song you were recording. Then you would be legal.

You could then record them the track, be legal, and make money. Of course you would have to charge as much as $30-40 a song to make a profit, but they would pay this, as most karaoke singers are aspiring artists, with one heck of an ego.

This may or may not be legal, but on another board with legal counsel onboard, this was the conclusion of the discussion.

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I'm Not Dead yet...... But every day Im getting Closer !

It's not legal.  You are a commercial entity engaging in the act of distribution of a copyrighted work.

Now, is it prosecutable and are there any damages?  In criminal court they can fine and jail you for violation of copyright.  But there are very few copyright cases that go the criminal route because the plaintiff wants damages which normally requires a civil tort.

If you bought a copy of the track for each and every person and gave them a copy with the recording then there is very little in the way of argueing dilution of copyright, but it's still not permissable under current copyright law because you're a commercial entity profiting by distributing someone elses copyrighted work.  If you really want to make this legal, at a minimum, you'd have to license the tracks for reproduction from the manufacturer and pay the minimum statutory rate for mechanical reproduction to the Harry Fox agency (which is 8.5 cents per track under 5 minutes with a minimum of 500 copies, or $42.50 per track).  As I mentioned before you could talk with Sound Choice and other manufacturers about the special licensing rates for karaoke booths which is what you're really trying to do - but in a public show.

BTW, I did read the Sound Choice FAQ and they specifically allow you to record the end user and give them a copy of the recording if they buy original media.  While the copy is made by a commercial entity I can only assume they are allowing this under their interpretation of the fair use section of USC Title 17.

http://www.soundchoice.com/faq/3.shtml

Keep in mind that if the person singing wanted to record themselves they can as long as they're not trying to use the backing track to obtain work as a singer.  That carries an addtional per track licensing fee from Sound Choice.  I'm sure other manufacturers have their own prices  and methods for handling this.

Remember, you're dealing with two different things, copyright law and licensing.  Up to this point, everyone has been VERY clear regarding copying and even format shifting by a commercial entity.  Basically, don't do it because it's illegal.  While the manufacturers will talk 1:1 copies and not prosecuting, technically it's still breaking the law.  Just because the cop see you jay walk doesn't mean you'll get a ticket.  But piss him off and jaywalk will likely result in some unpleasant harassment at a minimum.

Am I lawyer? No.  I'm not a lawyer, I don't even play one on TV.  I did do an unprecedented amount of research on the subject, including calling some of the manufacturers and talking with most of the regulatory groups that deal with music licensing.  What you see above is based on my discussions with the people and groups that will work to protect copyrighted works.  Note that I did NOT contact the RIAA nazis.  They are a bit overzealous in their interpretation of copyright law and licensing and I wanted the real deal.

BTW, feel free to do your own research and draw your own conclusions.  I also recommend that if you are seriously considering doing this that you contact a lawyer who specializes in copyright and intellectual property law - preferably in both criminal and tort cases.

karaokemeister,






exactly what is the difference between the statement I made, and the one you posted from the sound choice website???????

I think I said the same thing.

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I'm Not Dead yet...... But every day Im getting Closer !

The difference would be that Title 17 doesn't permit this unless you get permission from the copyright holder.  While Sound Choice specifically permits this, other copyright holders are not likely to allow this same use.  That's what I was trying to point out.  Unless you are prepared to stock a large number of Sound Choice discs you'll have to check with the other manufacturers to see if they will allow this sort of use.  The manufacturers are not too keen on format shifting so I don't suspect  they're be too keen on you making copies.

As I said before, you'll want to check with a lawyer and each of the manufacturers before you offer this service.  The additional overhead of carrying all the discs in inventory for recording would likely be cost prohibative unless they prepay for a recording the week before and you order in the discs with the song they want to record.

Another thing to consider is When a coustomer brings in their own original disk, and most serious singers do. Then By this premise, you can record them, because they own the original.

Priddis on their website had a disclaimer allowing you to make a demo recording from their music.  so this isnt a sound choice exclusive.

I think the Harry fox thing, applies to someone who plans to record a song for distribution, Not just a demo to pass out to family and such.

To me this is the definition, as recording for distribution could cause them monitary losses, as you are selling something they are not recieving a royalty on.

Of course this is all only my Opinion, not fact.

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I'm Not Dead yet...... But every day Im getting Closer !