Karaoke Forums

I have looked up at KAPA (Karaoke Antipiracy Agency). According to their website, we have to obtain a license agreement with the music companies of the songs you want to load into your hard drive for business purpose. Also the hard drive needs to be licensed as well. If these are true, which are the companies that sell licensed karaoke songs and machines?   Does anyone know of any company sell original/licensed Chinese Karaoke videos? Please advise. Thank you.

KAPA has NO (Read ZERO) teeth...

they and SC have lost every court battle they took on the people who are ripping their bought for stuff and converting to hard drive representation.

Now if you're a multi-rigger or downloader, be wary. They have won cases against those people. Also those that distribute burned copies.

So far, the purchased hard drivers haven't been brought to task, but I have a feeling that they soon will be.

But it won't be KAPA doing it.

ahhhh it always amuses me when KAPA's spin machine catches someone in it's web (no pun intended)... at this point, with such a HUGE gray area of what is technically "legal", what is technically "illegal" and what is acceptable use of copies or hard drives by the manufacturers, I wouldn't worry too much- for now.  I wouldn't worry AT ALL if you own all the original disks that you have copied or put on a hard drive (pc system) and that you limit those copies or digital files to a 1:1 ratio i.e if you have 1 original disk copied to cdr or digital format then you can only use it in 1 show at a time- using multiple copies or versions of 1 original is definitely theft (or piracy).  I would be wary of ANY hard drives filled with tens of thousands of karaoke tracks on ebay or others sites because I would guess soon that law enforcement may use those tactics in sting operations... I am not paranoid because they really are out to get me LOL  if you are legit, own all your tracks and aren't multi-rigging systems off of 1 original disk set, then I would not be worried in the slightest about if you are "legal" or not because you are, at minimal, within the parameters that have been accepted by most in this industry as being compliant (within the spirit of the law) and not considered a pirate or thief... need to take a DEEP breath now... WHEW.. ok... digest that and might post more later LOL- tig

Ok, just so you know this topic has come up time and time again in different ways.  I recently went through a lot of research and discussion about this with a number of licensing agencies, and record labels.  I wanted to know the REAL informaiton in regards to this to make sure that I'm not breaking any laws.  You do one of three things at this point, either accept my research, read the laws and ask yourself, or find an attoryney versed in Intellectual Property and copyright law and ask them.  Note that I am NOT an attorney and the information below is based in my own interpretation of the laws and the information provided by agencies with their own agendas.  To the best of my knowledge, non of the respondants were attorneys, but only because they didnt' identify themselves as one.  That being said, on to what I found out... warning, as it's not the most exciting thing in the world.

Copyright law in the United States is found under United States Code Title 17.  There is a section of the law (Section 107) that deals with what's called Fair Use.  Fair use is basically what gives you the right to use information from an encyclopedia to research your term paper and for you to make a copy of the article to take home.  It is what balances the interests of the copyright holder with that of being able to use the copyrighted work in activities that don't harm the copyright holder's ability to make money from the work.  It also simplifies things by allowing you to use the work without having to get permission to use the work from the copyright holder.  Keep in mind that there are also different penalties associated with direct, vicarious,  and contributory infringement.  

If you Violate a copyright Title 17 and subsequent laws allow for a variety of remedies to the copyright holder including Monetary Damages, Statutory Damages, Attorney's Fees, and Preliminary Injunction or a Temporary Restraining Order.  The criminal penalties are outlined in Title 17 but were changed a number of years ago so in your research you'll have to look for ammendments to Title 17 to find the latest penalties.

Ok, so now we know what fair use is, and the basic law that allows for it.  The problem is that there is a lot of turmoil in the legal field over what fair use really allows.  Because of this we have additional laws that deal with new technologies and court decisions that clarify things along the way.  A number of these laws are the Home Recording Act of 1992, the Sony vs. Universal Studios case, the Diamond Rio decision, the Digital Millenium Copyright Act, Sega vs. Maphia, Harper & Rowe vs. Nation Enterprises, American Geophysical vs. Texaco, and the No Electronic Theft act.  It's a lot of reading, but here's what it comes down to.

As a consumer you are allowed to time-shift or format-shift copyrighted material that you've licensed.  Remember, when you buy a CD you are purchasing a license to listen to a copy of the copyrighted work.  You don't actually own the work itself.  This is very clear based on all the decisions thus far.  The problem is they've also been VERY clear that time-shifting or format-shifting is NOT permissiable for ANY commercial enterprise.  Even the Home Recording Act of 1992 that was the first law that assumes that the copyright will be infringed and basically 'taxes' the sales of Digital Audio Tape machines and media as a remedy doesn't allow for commercial use.

That's right.  You can rip a cd for personal use, but not for commercial.  That's it.  Period.  No other interpretation is possible.  You cannot rip a CDG and play it back from a computer legally.  You can't rip a CD to MP3 or any other format for playback later.  No matter what anyone suggests this is what the law states.  Even companies that claim that they're fighting piracy by only allowing playback with their software and enforce strict Digital Rights Management and strong encryption practices are helping people to break the law.

Ok, before tiggr27 and everyone else has a fit, let me add a little more information to help you understand how you CAN do it legally, ways to offsest the high costs, and why if you do it you might get sued, but it's not likely they'll recieve any damages.

In order to format shift your licensed copies of copyrighted works, you have to first obtain permission from the copyright owner in what's called a Master Use license.  Once you have this you can then get a Mechanical Reproduction License or a Digital Phonorecord Distribution License from the Harry Fox Agency for each copy.  Sounds easy enough, but every track has a mechanical reproduction license cost of 8.5 cents for every track that's under 5 minutes.  Not a problem you say, I have 10,000 tracks, that's a one time fee of $850 (not counting the Master Use License).  WRONG!  The minimum number of copies you can license for is 500 of EACH track.  That's a cost of $42.50 per track, or $425,000 for those same tracks. Ouch.

The only way to alleviate this it to purchase the tracks in the format you intend to use them for to begin with.  That means that if you have 'Electric Slide' on vinyl (a record) and need it as a MP3 and CD you have to buy it from an online MP3 download service and as a CD.  You'll drop $1 for the track on CD (give or take per track based on 15 tracks per disc and a cost of $15) and a $1 for the track as an MP3.  A far cry from the $42.50+ per track.  So, if you are just setting up a DJ business or plan or need music to play between singers, buy it in the format you need.  I personally prefer MP3 because the Digital Phonorecord license is a little
more liberal in allowing for the copying and transfer of music between machines.  Note that if you plan to play the song AND scratch with it as well you'll require two copies - just as if you were using records.

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Ok, let's assume you ignore all this and buy a 10,000 song CDG library.  It's ALL legally purchased CDG's and you want to go digital.  You spend hours upon hours to rip all your discs to Ogg+CDG (Mp3 has it's own licensing issues which I won't go into) and start hosting.  You only have a single rig, all your discs are locked up, and you only have a single copy of each of the tracks on your hard drive.  They come to you, find you're using copies, and sue you.  You go to court and they ask for damges (this is called a tort or civil suit).  The problem is that there isn't any.  You have a single copy, the originals are not in use, and there is no monetary loss by the copyright owner.   There are other arguments that can be made dealing with licensing, but the issue is that the copyright owner hasn't suffered any damages.  This is why when you talk with some disc manufacturers they will say that if you run a computer based show and keep all your discs in your car to show immeadiately that there is a 1:1 ratio of discs (not in use) against the MP3's on your hard drive they won't prosecute.  They can't condone the practice because it's a violation of law, but like a lot of crimes the people that would request you be charged understand the business just enough to let it slide.  It's sort of like driving 60mph in a 55mph zone.  It's still illegal, but chances are you aren't going to get pulled over for it.

Side notes:

1. If you purchase a hard drive on eBay with a large number of tracks it's illegal unless they also include the original CDG's or other media the tracks come on and pay appropriate licensing to the Harry Fox Agency.  This is a distribution of copyrighted works not permitted and HIGHLY frowned upon.

2. Even if you purchase a CAVS hard drive based player and transfer your music to it you're breaking the law.  Transfering your CDG's to SuperCDG's is also against the law, but see not about about 'letting it slide'.

3. If you buy a CAVS player you CAN get legally licensed libraries to load on the machine.  They are far more than many of the hard drives being sold on eBay and the 'pre-loaded' CAVS units that are out there.  Check out Ace-Karaoke (a sponsor of this site) and the CAVS units they have for sale to see what I mean.  A large Japanese collection is $700 and only available if you purchase it with a CAVS player or send your player to them.

4. Even if you can be licensed to playback a legally purchased MP3 in a public venue commercial use of the track could be violating the Terms of Use agreement with the provider.  Unless you specifically talk with them in regards to this they can terminate your account at any time for commercial use of the downloaded tracks.  I'd be sure to read the Terms of Use carefully and abide by it until such time as you get information from the seller regarding playback only of the tracks.

Note that there are disc manufacturers working on a solution that would allow you to rip and playback files legally.  They would allow you to legally transfer a single copy of the disc to a machine.  There are a lot of issues to overcome but it's their idea to implement strong Digital Rights Management to prevent unauthorized copying.

Well, that's it in a nutshell.  It's a long post but hopefully it will make things a little clearer.

BTW, KAPA did shut down a couple disc distribution businesses shortly after they were created but they have done NOTHING in a long, long time to stop copyright infringement and shut down the illegal shows.  I recently contacted a manufacturer about some illegal copies on eBay and was told it takes 48 hours to shut the auction down - which doesn't leave a lot of time on a 3 day auction to find it first.

The above information about copyright was based on conversations with eMusic, ASCAP, BMI, SESAC, The Harry Fox agency, a couple difference record labels, and through my own reading from a variety of sources, including the Internet, Cyberlaw: Text and Cases, and Cyberlaw, the Law of the Internet.  None of the above information is meant to be legal advice.  Consult with an attorney that specializes in Intellectual Property and copyright law to get more information on the specifics of laws in your local area.  If you are outside the United States you can ignore everything posted here as the chances are you laws are VERY different from ours.

As for where to get Chinese karaoke.  There are a number of vendors that offer karaoke in Chinese, Tagalog, Japanese, Korean, and other Asian languages.  I'd start with the sponsors of the site - specifically Ace Karaoke and DTS Karaoke.

Good luck and let us know if you have any more questions!